The Chubby Therapist's Journey from Personal Resilience to Professional Fulfillment - Rene Garcia

René is a psychotherapist based in the North Dallas area. He spent a majority of his career providing therapy in both inpatient and outpatient settings for Substance Use Disorders until opening his private practice, Garcia Mental Health, in 2017. In 2020, he decided to primarily focus his practice on treating Adult Men due to an identified need of practitioners willing to support the ever growing community. He has a 15 year old daughter he shares a passion for Star Wars with, and he's getting married in November to the love of his life. Mr. Rene Garcia aka the Chubby Therapist. 

Summary:

Ever wondered what it's like to pivot from a mundane job to a fulfilling career that impacts lives? Join us as we engage with Rene Garcia, a second-generation immigrant from Houston who did just that, bravely transitioning to a career in psychotherapy. From overcoming identity struggles to navigating through college and parenthood, Rene's inspiring story is a testament to the power of resilience and passion.

Rene's journey didn't stop there. He took a giant leap when he decided to focus his practice on adult men, a demographic often overlooked when it comes to mental health, due to societal stigmas. As a psychotherapist, Rene recognized the increased demand for mental health services during the pandemic and provided a safe haven for men to express their feelings without fear or judgment. We also delve into his journey of self-discovery, how he overcame his ego, and challenged himself to double his salary in five years.

One of the most heartfelt parts of our conversation with Rene centers around the topic of fatherhood. Fatherhood, as Rene elaborates, is not just about being a parent; it's about healing, growth, and bonding. Hear how he started a monthly dad's meeting to foster a supportive community among fathers and how this element in his life transformed him as a person and as a professional. Listen to our conversation with Rene Garcia and open your mind to the possibilities of personal growth and professional fulfillment.

Transcript

Raul Lopez: 0:04

This is Raul Lopez, and you're listening to. How Do you Say Success in Spanish? The path to success isn't easy For minorities and people of color. Many attempt to journey with little to no guidance. Join me as I sit down with individuals who share their stories of perseverance so that together, we can learn how to say success in Spanish. The guy who married me and my wife, Rene Garcia. How's it going, Rene?

Rene Garcia: 0:42

I'm doing great man. Happy to be here, brother.

Raul Lopez: 0:45

So your official title that you sent me is Rene Garcia, lmftlpclcdc. So that's a lot of fucking letters to put it to someone's name. So just to kind of give everybody a background on Rene. Rene is a psychotherapist based in the North Dallas area. He's spent a majority of his career providing therapy in both inpatient and outpatient settings for substance use disorders until opening his private practice, Garcia Mental Health in 2017. In 2020, he decided to primarily focus his practice on treating adult men, due to an identified need of practitioners willing to support the ever going community. He has a fictional daughter, he shares a passion for Star Wars with and he's getting married in November to the love of his life. So introducing Mr Rene Garcia, aka the chubby therapist.

Rene Garcia: 1:27

Hey, hey, chubby therapist in the house. What's up, buddy? How's it going?

Raul Lopez: 1:31

Thank you, man. I really appreciate you being here.

Rene Garcia: 1:33

I know we reschedule a few times and I blame you for each one of those, but we are within I don't know when this is being released, but we were like within 30 days of the wedding time, so things are crazy.

Raul Lopez: 1:43

So I think, I think I'll try to release this on your wedding day, so you can just have it right there.

Rene Garcia: 1:49

So Perfect, I love it.

Raul Lopez: 1:53

Yeah, that'll be your wedding gift, because I don't get anything else from me but me being there is a good thing, I'll take it. You're lucky, you get me. Yeah, exactly, I'll take it, I'll take it all day. But yeah, man. So let's start off and just tell me who is Rene Garcia.

Rene Garcia: 2:08

Yeah, man, I'm a Pisces. Okay, no, I was originally born in Houston, texas. I was born and raised there. I currently live in Dallas. You know I was always having kind of like an interest in psychology, but to me I grew up as a second generation immigrant. My father was from South Texas, the Brownsville, matamotos area, my mother's from Mexico, and came over when she was about eight or nine and you know they moved from the valley. Any Rio Grande Valley people in Texas know the South Texas is a very specific area and so when they moved to Houston, you know that's where they had my brother and I and we spent the majority of our lives there.

Rene Garcia: 2:51

Got a daughter when I was 23. She's about to be 16 and about oh, a day, two days as of right now, and so that's insane. And I've been working in psychology probably since about 2000. Let's see, when did I get my first? 2010 is when I first started working in the mental health field, so it's been a really great journey and I'm just really grateful to be in the mental health field right now. It's you can't go anywhere without someone talking about mental health, so I love it.

Raul Lopez: 3:22

Yeah, nice man, and you know, a lot of times I talk to people were kind of the first generation immigrant coming in here and I moved to Texas.

Rene Garcia: 3:30

I'm your kid. Yeah, I'm your kid. Yeah, you're a kid. Oh God, god forbid no.

Raul Lopez: 3:39

And so I mean, obviously the struggles are different, the challenges are different.

Rene Garcia: 3:42

Yeah, very different.

Raul Lopez: 3:43

You know, for one thing, english is usually not your first language. Sometimes my daughter's the same way struggling. But what are some of the challenges you think you felt as a second generation?

Rene Garcia: 3:51

Yeah, Well, it's interesting because you know, I think if you were to like not know my name and you were just to close my eyes and hear me talk, you would probably think I was white, you know. But I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood. We were one of the first Latino families in that neighborhood and we moved there when I was about three. So for people familiar with the Houston area, we lived a little bit closer to Green's Point, but then my father got a little bit better job and moved us up the street closer to Willowbrook Mall.

Raul Lopez: 4:22

And for people who don't know Houston, green's Point, that's one of the first parts of the town I moved into not knowing, and I got my apartment there and I go to work. I'm like, oh, I found an apartment and I'm thinking, oh, it's 600 bucks, I got 500 square feet, a washer and dryer, hookup and a dishwasher and for New England, that's like amazing. And then like, oh, you moved to Guns Point. I'm like nobody told me that nickname before I rented it. So just to kind of give some background, green's Point was not the nicest part of the town that you want to live in.

Rene Garcia: 4:48

Well, it was interesting. So back in that you're right Back in the 70s and 80s. It wasn't not, as you know, what it was today, right, and so I think we lived there. My brother went to school there and we're about six years apart, and when I was about three is when we moved a little bit farther north up the road and, yes, it does have some rough sides to it, but you know, I love the area. It's always feel that, always paint Green's Point. It's a terrible. It's like the place where, like Fox News always go to, like here they're releasing Jordans and look at all these. You know these people. That's where they always go. But North Houston is a beautiful area and yeah, the first neighborhood we lived in.

Rene Garcia: 5:30

I mean that neighborhood that I basically grew up with a lot of my friends. You know I was one of the few Latino kids in that group and I love all the guys. A lot of these guys I'm still friends with today. I just had my bachelor party a couple of weeks ago and a majority of those guys were still there. But I mean, there definitely was an identity thing. I think for me it wasn't as difficult because I'm fair skinned, you know, I'm kind of a funny guy and I'm able to make friends easily. And you know, for me it was. I was able to kind of be in a group of people around me so I did feel supported and so I didn't have a lot of the struggles that I think a lot of first generations, especially for people that English was not their first language. You know my parents grew up in a time where it just was not okay to be Latino.

Rene Garcia: 6:15

I wasn't being okay to be Spanish speaking. And they came to this country and assimilation wasn't really an option, it was a. That's what you did and you assimilated to survive. And so a lot of the you know now that we look back, really the racism and atrocities that happened in South Texas was, you know, you would be embarrassed, you know, beaten in front of the class if you spoke Spanish. And so you know, my parents and my family decided, you know what, we're going to have them learn English first. And now I look back, I think you know I would have loved to have had Spanish be my first language and I think I've struggled picking it up throughout my life. But you know, again, it's just the cars were dealt and we just make the best out of it.

Rene Garcia: 6:53

And really, what I found when I went to college is when I really kind of said you know what I really want to lean into this, you know identity, this Latina that had a really big passion for and, and I did, and I ended up having being involved with a lot of school organizations, whether it be the Hispanic Business, student Association, the Latino I mean just any Latino organization was a part of there's Latino fraternity, is always interested for and I just really engage with it there and I just really started kind of meeting people that culturally I could relate to my guys back home. I love them and, yes, we have the same jokes, we have the same personality. But there's like a cultural gap between a lot of these guys that I did not have and I felt that gap being fulfilled when I went to college and met a lot of other people who grew up with similar last names, parents with similar stories, and that was a really huge part of my identity and still is to this day.

Raul Lopez: 7:47

Yeah, it's. It's funny because I was very similar, although I wasn't growing up in like a predominantly white neighborhood. I was growing up very predominantly black neighborhood.

Rene Garcia: 7:56

But in my whole life.

Raul Lopez: 7:57

I was very much more wanting and going towards that culture than I was my Latina culture. I didn't like Spanish music, I didn't like speaking Spanish. I grew up, you know, I'm from Peru, so Spanish was my first language, and so you know I had to kind of.

Raul Lopez: 8:10

when I got to college, the same thing I felt. Oh, you know, I started to meet these Latinos and the pride that I see other Latinos acting and it kind of drove me to want to be more Same thing. I kind of figured out my identity and I think identity is always kind of an issue that a lot of us deal with. It's just oh huge.

Raul Lopez: 8:28

It's crazy and it's. I think about the same thing with my daughter, where we're doing what your parents did. You know, we're no predominantly white neighborhood. We're like one of the only Latinos in the whole neighborhood that we live in. All her friends here are white, she's playing soccer and all the kids are white pretty much, except for one other girl who's black, and so it's like she's going to grow very different from the way I grew up.

Rene Garcia: 8:55

Oh, and there were some experiences too about us getting into that neighborhood. And I mean, now my parents are older and they I don't think they want, they're kind of like held a little bit of stuff from us. And you know, they tell us how like they had one neighborhood, one house under contract and just randomly that house was no longer under contract because the you know, the homeowner association had to jump in and it took them a couple tries again in the neighborhood that we wanted. And I remember I don't mean to make this sorry for this to be gross, raul, you can cut this out if you want to we were I was a kid and of course me like I've always been able to kind of just meet friends pretty easily and make friends and I had a bike and I was going to go ride my bike to a friend's house and I had to use a restroom really bad. But I didn't want to go all the way to the house, so inside the house, so I decided just to piss in the front yard because I was like I need to. You know, I didn't want to go I do want to run all the way as a waste of time, and my friend was waiting for me. Well, of course we had neighbors who now they were wonderful friends and you know we missed them.

Rene Garcia: 9:55

But back then they were, you know, I mean their people were constantly looking out their window and of course, as I wrote off, my mom was there and my neighborhood called and said did you know what your son did? And I remember my mom coming back. My mom was super pissed and she was. I remember this conversation very clearly Because she says you know, they, they already don't want us here. You know, they already don't want us. A family who cannot do that. That's not for one, it's disgusting. And number two, they're everybody's watching us. You cannot do that, you know. And so this kind of like already heightened sense of like their eyes on you, there are people watching you. Later on I didn't give a shit, but at that moment I was kind of like, oh, I didn't realize that, you know. And so it was kind of a heightened sense of where are we? You know?

Raul Lopez: 10:36

Yeah, and in Texas is a very interesting place because it's there's a level of racism that just kind of leads so in and a lot of people. They meet Mexicans third, second or third generation. They don't speak Spanish like how did you lose your culture? And it's like dude.

Raul Lopez: 10:48

It was forced in by 70s and you know, 70s, 60s, if you had an accent you said you couldn't do anything. And so parents raise your kids, not have an accent, not, you know, be angle size as much as possible, give them angle names because otherwise things were too difficult for them. And you get to second or third generation but that racism still in there, because your last name, your color and as your parents kind of hide that from you. You know we're a different time now. But my daughter I have to kind of explain it to her sometimes to say, hey, you know, don't forget your Latina. And even though you're very light skinned and your complexion is dark and you have a French first name, because her name is Evangeline, that Lopez is going to pop out and someone might think negatively you know, and it's kind of a life lesson that you still have to do now, even though things are very different.

Rene Garcia: 11:35

So I had a conversation with Lexi, my daughter, once in a while, and you know I go, you know you're a third generation immigrant, you know that right, like you know, and because you know her mother's white and she's very fair skin like myself, and you know, and so there is this kind of like reminder of, like you know, this is a cultural way that language may not be that thing but you can still experience culture outside of that language as well too, and remembering that you are part of this community and it's important it's. It was a huge part of my life that I kind of had to go and seek, because there's just a huge generational divide, but it's still a reminder, especially as you have kids, to how do I remain culturally connected and connecting my children to this part of our history, you know.

Raul Lopez: 12:22

Yeah, I mean I'm not doing great with this. The language part of it she understands. She doesn't have a lot of time, but I gotta do a better job at it and I keep beating myself over.

Rene Garcia: 12:30

Well, I mean, look, I think, look there I it's really interesting. By the way, I knew this is going to happen because you and I could talk for fucking hours, and so I knew we're just going to be talking about random stuff and so here we are talking about no sabo kids, but I think there is a very joyous side of me hearing the acceptance and uplifting of no sabo kids.

Rene Garcia: 12:55

And for those, for those who are non Spanish speaking, the no sabo kids is the, the kids who are basically with Spanish last names but just don't speak. And for me, there I got called coconut my whole life. I got you know whatever or whatever, and you know this disconnect the culture. But I feel like there's this kind of like why should these? Why should we take on the colonizers, colonizers language? You know it's okay that someone's no sabo and you can still be connected to the culture and I was, like I could use you as well, like 20 years ago, I think, like I said everything's with time and everything was move along.

Raul Lopez: 13:31

Things get more progressive, people are more accepting. You know we're able to get these, have these conversations, I think, as people grow, and I think it's probably going to actually roll back into when you talk about therapy. Even just our generation were more knowledgeable and we researched more before we do so when we try to learn from our mistakes and raise our kids differently. But, like I mean, identity crisis is a big issue and it's you know.

Raul Lopez: 13:54

I know you're kind of saying, oh, we're going random enough to think, no, this is stuff that people go through and we go. A lot of us go through it as well. And, like you mentioned, it was college where you started kind of transitioning and being able to go back and say, okay, let me get more involved in anything. But you know, but colleges for a lot of us is a challenge. Let's talk. You know how you went to university of North Texas.

Rene Garcia: 14:13

You know how yeah, man, go mean green. Yeah, absolutely went to university in North Texas. It is in a little town called Denton, texas, about 30 minutes north of Dallas, and for me, I wanted to go to college for music and I wanted to be a music teacher because I play trombone and I had always really not great teachers and school and so I was excited. Me was like, why want to go and be a band director? Be really cool. And University of North Texas has an amazing public music program, is known for the jazz program. Nora Jones went there.

Rene Garcia: 14:46

I mean a lot of different Grammy awards and you know it was far, a little bit of far away from how I kind of wanted to go far, but not super far away. And so for me I just remember going there and being like this is a beautiful campus. It was very green, very lush, and I just fell in love with the campus and I was like, yes, let's do it. Well, you go there and you realize I'm not that good at Trump. I play trouble, I'm good, but I'm not as good. And these kids were unbelievable.

Rene Garcia: 15:11

And on top of it to I just there was something that I think there was like an imposter syndrome of like, okay, wow, there's kids that are like basically jazz artist and ready to start putting out albums, playing better the marching band one year and then I just undeclared but I just didn't have a lot of direction when I was in college, but I had a lot of fun and I met a lot of really great people and I had this kind of thing happen where I kind of felt like you know, the only one up there I didn't, you know, have a lot of friends up there, didn't know anybody there, so I just kind of latched on to a guy that was in band with me and then he had a friend, and then you start meeting all their friends and and then you start getting involved with these organizations and that, to me, made me feel very much at home.

Rene Garcia: 15:54

And so when I'm, you know, talking to you know, my daughter about going to college and stuff like that, I always say, hey, look, by the way, I'm sorry, my dogs are going crazy.

Raul Lopez: 16:07

I don't hear anything. I can hear it.

Rene Garcia: 16:10

I was like when she goes to college just to go check out organizations, because that was a huge thing for me and so meeting people getting involved in those organizations, I mean it was very much like a part of home and I remember first I won't name the person, but I remember exactly who it was they were said something on the lines of because we're talking about family and stuff, and I was, like you know, telling some experiences and she goes dang, Rene, you're more Mexican than I am.

Rene Garcia: 16:35

I was like I had, in my 1819 years, had never heard anybody say that my whole life. They'd be like, oh, you're the white guy or you know whatever. And so it just felt very much at home and I felt very connected and so college was a really great experience. I took some, you know, a victory lapse. I didn't really know what I was going to do, but I finally settled on a degree in sociology with a minor in business, and through those sociology courses I took a couple of meaningful courses, one being a, a class on interpersonal violence, like like violence between domestic violence, and was actually in with a friend of ours, dana, and that teacher was so moving to me. She was a therapist and I was just like man. That's so awesome. I would love to do something like that.

Rene Garcia: 17:26

But by that time Lexi was pretty much born and I needed to start working. Well, I got a job and I hated it. Immediately. It was during the crash of the economy and I was gassed $4 an hour. I got hired because they just needed a span, a Hispanic person in that position and I was hating it. I wasn't getting paid anything. I couldn't pass the test to get that job.

Rene Garcia: 17:59

Well, my mom was working for university, our Lady, the Lake University, based out of San Antonio, and she goes hey, this program, I think, would be really good for you here at thought about it. Well, I go to the, you know, to the information. I fell in love with the program and sure enough, it's a master of psychology with a focus on marriage and family therapy. I had a three year program, move back to Houston to do it and it was just the best decision I could have made. It was everything I needed, everything wanted, the type of training I got everybody I other therapists, I explained it to them and they're like, dude, our training was like nothing like that. I had three job offers by time I graduated and it was just, I don't know, I loved it. I wish he'd go back and do it again because it was just really the best program. I don't think that could ask for a better program.

Raul Lopez: 18:44

So I mean, I'm not saying that in Houston, but you said you had Lexie at that point, that she was in Dallas.

Rene Garcia: 18:50

Yeah, so her mom and I were never married.

Rene Garcia: 18:53

We decided that when she was born we're going to co parent and we were not in love, and so we said, you know what, we shouldn't make this decision.

Rene Garcia: 19:01

So that was really tough. We decided to move to Texas or Canada to have her parents there support her, and then I moved down from Dallas to then from Dallas to Houston to start my master's program, and so there she would stay with Lori for the you know her mom for a majority of the time, and then she'd come for a majority of the time and then back and forth from that area, and so we still stayed pretty involved, but ultimately we both agreed that we would meet up eventually in Dallas so I could be closer to her, and thank God that eventually happened in 2014, and best decision ever best decision was to get closer together and it's just been. You know, I don't care what my job is. I guess I got to stay here a couple more years and then we can go wherever I just love being close to her and being a part of her life, and so, yeah, it was definitely a huge thing for me to get back up here to Dallas as soon as possible.

Raul Lopez: 19:53

You say you're having trouble passing tests for that first time. Yeah, was that a therapist test, or is it?

Rene Garcia: 19:57

like something different.

Rene Garcia: 19:59

Great question, raul, great question. So I got hired with zero prospects under. So I graduated undergrad and I had zero job prospects. One thing that if you're you know any college kids or if you have kids are about to go to college, it's all about internships and you got internships. Do internships around sophomore, junior year, you know, get networking by that time I did none of that. I was very misdirected.

Rene Garcia: 20:25

For my undergraduate degree years I was working a restaurant and I thought I'd be a part of this and just work the restaurant business, rest my life. I waited tables or a server, a bartender a little bit, and I love that experience and the lifestyle is great, money's fast and quick. But it's just a really hard life because you're working, you know. You know, basically Tuesday through Sunday and very few days off. If you worked in a bar, you just always smelled like bleach because everything had to be bleached and it was just kind of got you know old.

Rene Garcia: 20:55

But I decided to take a year off before I graduated. I didn't know what I was doing. My mom was very supportive, my dad was a little cautious and skeptical. But I took some time off and got back into school and it was very more directed at that time. So I graduated and I got hired as a financial planner with a very large life insurance company because I realized and I figured this out because they hired a gay guy for the exact same reason they hired me the Latino guys. They said they wanted to have a gay guy to go to the gay community. We got to have a Latino guy to go to the Latino community, which is a weird kind of like. I don't know if there's any like Labor Board referral that I should make or any kind of a raise a hiring.

Raul Lopez: 21:37

My company was trying to be way too diverse on purpose. Can you punish them?

Rene Garcia: 21:41

They're you give me a job.

Rene Garcia: 21:43

They stopped my last name but yeah, I realized that and in order to do that you have to pass a life insurance producer license, life and health producer license. And I remember my old roommate will, from Denton, really sweet guy and I remember going through all this stuff and I had to go to the book, go through this huge book and back then there wasn't like a lot of video stuff or online stuff and so textbook and then you sit down, take the test. I remember him looking over me and being like dude, what are you doing? What are you doing? I cannot see you doing this. I was like what he goes dude, what are you doing.

Rene Garcia: 22:26

This is not you, this is not you. And I just been like, okay, I know it's not me, but I need to do it for right now. And sure, if I took that test the first time and I failed it, and I remember the people in the office being like, hey, buckaroo, you know you're gonna, you're gonna get it next time. Oh, that test is terrible, you know you're gonna be all right. And then I failed it a second time and then the conversations changed dramatically. They'd be like so you failed it a second time, really like it was like not supportive at all. It's kind of like oh, this guy's a fucking idiot.

Rene Garcia: 23:02

What are you gonna do? So that's when I just basically just stop. I mean, they weren't paying me. It was basically an internship and you're supposed to like get this license and then start building a clientele. Hey, do you have any friends? You have any parents, any family members? You can sell life insurance too. So I was like, why not pay me? So why am I driving all the way out here? So then I started doing the waiting tables of our 10 and being more and more and I was definitely freaking out because Lexi was already born and I didn't have any prospects and I was very scared.

Rene Garcia: 23:34

The economy was complete garbage and my mom was just like I said. She sent this program over to me and I had always been interested in psychology. I took an AP psychology class in high school and it was interesting to me. But again, my father is a you know, the second oldest of six, second first oldest male, and you know his dad died when he was 12. And his life was. I got a support, I got to provide for my family, and so he worked in the as an accountant in the business world, and my mother has a degree in accounting. He put my mom through college and and so I came from a business background and so I just thought, okay, well, just go in business and see what that works.

Rene Garcia: 24:16

But that was not me at all. I'm, you know, was the musician. I was a little bit more creative, I was the emotional one, I just wanted to. You know, that just wasn't me, and I felt like that life insurance gig was going to be something that I just wasn't going to like. And so when I found out this program, I was like, oh, I can talk to people and I can get paid for it and I can, you know, kind of make a difference. Like that was something that nobody in my family had ever had before done before, and so it was just a really awesome, really really awesome experience and I don't know I was just really grateful for for me to. I was just really grateful that I was able to find that program and have the conversations I had with the professors and for it to just Be everything I needed at that moment.

Raul Lopez: 25:01

So it's funny you talk about the financial advising insurance job that you get, because I think that's a very common job that a lot of people get out of college. It's also kind of, I think, a little predatory as well for a lot of all coming people out of college, where they try to get you. They try to tell you you're going to get paid commission, they expect you to pay for your, your licensing, and they say, oh, once you pass, it will reimburse you, kind of deal. I don't know if that's oh, yeah, if they had that, you do that. And then they're like, okay, now send me a list of 100 your friends and family members and you're going to start working. You find something like that and they get a lot of us. I was at one of those interviews to where it was a group interview, and they tell me that you know kind of felt like multi-level marketing interview.

Raul Lopez: 25:45

I didn't feel at ease and I was like I didn't take it.

Rene Garcia: 25:49

Yeah, no, I mean, it was like it's great information and I'm glad I did it because, like you know you, just you need to know that stuff. So she's a family. But yeah, it was very much exactly like that, like, hey, we just need a guy here and we need you to, we need your people, you know that kind of thing.

Rene Garcia: 26:04

And it didn't feel I don't know. And I remember me talking to another Latino guy there and he was very much into like golfed, you know. So everybody's like, oh, let's bring out this guy, he's the golfer, you know. And I was like, oh, I don't fucking golf, I don't golf at all. Like you know, I don't do that stuff and it felt exactly like a cheesy business place that I was like I don't want to be here.

Raul Lopez: 26:28

You know it sucks being at a job where you put a label on you right away. It's like that office office episode, like oh, I get the fire guy, you know. It's like you know you don't want to go to a job and you're the Latino guy. You're the Latino guy that doesn't play golf and he's a.

Raul Lopez: 26:41

Latino guy that does play golf. You know that's gotta feel like shit, but you ended up going to get your masters in our late of the lake and you said you ended up getting job prospect because that when you started working with people with substance use disorders- yeah, so it's a three year program and I was in my freshman year and I was in my not freshman year is a three year master's program.

Rene Garcia: 27:04

I was in the first year and I was waiting tables at a local Papadot. For all of my Texas people know what that is, but it's a Cajun restaurant and I remember working there and you go around for your you know first day and they're like, what do you do? And I was like, oh, I'm in grad school and maybe one day I want to be a therapist, maybe like a psychologist. And I remember a new guy that got hired and the manager joking around the town and be like, oh, what are you going to do? Talk to people and help them with their feeling. And they're like laughing at me, like in the, in the orientation, and that that was like immediately like a red flag of I got to get out of here, I don't want to be here, and so I decided not to.

Rene Garcia: 27:50

I was living at home, so it wasn't a big thing for me to quit. That job was actually the first job I ever just quit because I hated it. People that were terrible and I didn't like the restaurant and I had come from a restaurant that was completely different. It was a different culture, and so I was like I gotta find something. Well, it just so happened that there was a second year student who sent out an email through the email blast of the school, because it was like a small cohort, and it said hey, I own a drug and alcohol outpatient facility, so it's an intensive outpatient program which is basically like the last structured level of programming that insurance will cover, which means it's like basically like a night class, monday through Thursday, couple hours a night, and then you go back and you do it.

Rene Garcia: 28:35

So basically, people who are entering this program, either a are coming from really high levels of care like detox, rehab or whatever, or their drug and alcohol use isn't that significant. So he just needs something to kind of help them and understand, kind of a night class program type of thing. So he owned a couple locations of this and was kind of kind of an affiliate of a bigger company and he said hey, you know I'm looking for an intern if anybody wants to be interested in helping drug and alcohol people. You know, you know you'd love for me a part of it. And I was like, oh, that sounds really interesting, you know, I want to definitely check that out and the interview was so funny because I am not in recovery myself, but they want to know about any like drug or alcohol use experience and I was like, yeah, you know, I tried this and I was around.

Rene Garcia: 29:19

That's the weirdest interview process. I was like we can't be referencing any kind of drug or alcohol experience that I've ever had in my life. And luckily he was a really sweet guy, gave my first gig and helped me get my internship license. So with these licenses, just because you get your license doesn't mean you're automatically a therapist. You have to get the license, be an intern or an associate for a little bit and then it gets fully licensed. So I got my internship license in 2010 for a chemical dependency counselor. So you listed out all that alphabet soup behind my name earlier. So the LCDC is the licensed chemical dependency counselor. That was the first license I ever got. Got it in 2010. By the time I graduated in 2012, it was fully licensed. So I was graduating as a fully licensed chemical dependency counselor. And that license at that time you just needed an associate's degree to have it. So I was graduating with my masters in line, trying to get my LPC, my license professional counselor, and my LMFT, which is my licensed marriage and family therapist licenses. So even with those being internship level, I was still having those on top of my LCDC.

Rene Garcia: 30:30

On top of this great face, I had a number of different. You know job offers full time by the time I graduated, one from my internship spot. You know one from this counselor who wanted me to help him grow, and then another one from a really big hospital system in Houston called Memorial Herman, and so I ended up taking the job of a moral Herman and it was really tough to leave. You know my mentor and the guy kind of helped me through this. But he got it. You understood it. That had a little little bit of prospects going with them and they were able to pay me a little bit more and they're also able to help me complete my licenses, because even in the internship license space you have to have a supervisor who signs off on your hours and says, hey, this person is a trustworthy therapist and if you don't have a facility that provides that, that means you pay it out of your own pocket.

Rene Garcia: 31:21

And so it kind of absorbed the cost and I was able to work there for a couple years and get my licenses and so it helped out tremendously doing that. So graduated 2012, had those prospects and ended up staying with that facility, that hospital system, for, I'd say, almost like four years, four and a half years. So yeah, it's a really good experience. I worked at a couple of different outpatient facilities and did a couple rounds and I love working with families as a graduate is a marriage and family therapist and work with family systems and it was just a really great, really great experience working there. A lot of great clinicians, a lot of great doctors who respected what you had to say, positions, who were talking about 12 steps, and so I really enjoyed the degree, which is really awesome and, you know, wanted to hear what therapists had to say. That that's that collaborative nature is is. I mean, that to me is one of the most joyful working experiences that I had is just people that respected you as a clinician. A really great feeling.

Raul Lopez: 32:20

Yeah, I think it's funny too, because we see a lot of the shift when it comes to doctors like MDs, where they're now incorporating the aspect of mental health into their discussions where it's before it's just like oh, your heart.

Raul Lopez: 32:33

We're going to fix you or we're going to try to do this. And now that's like you want to talk to therapists a therapist specifically for this, and it's more. You know, as someone who's dealing with their own health thing, they constantly ask you you know, how are you feeling? That was one of the first things my doctor told me when I got my liver done to start off.

Raul Lopez: 32:48

How do you feel? You know what I mean. You know just instead of just telling me what's wrong with me. So it's a lot more accepting and I think it's for the better. You know, and I'm glad you were able to get that and so you got this job. You're working. Did you have to go back to school, or is PhD something that you need to do now, or is it just kind of like a maybe?

Rene Garcia: 33:07

So great question, raul. I really wanted to do the PhD and I remember talking to the only other guy in my cohort about it and he was an older guy a couple, not an older guy who's definitely maybe like 10 or 15 years older than me, and I remember telling him he's like hey man, you should go for your PhD. I was like I don't know, I don't know that's, I don't want to five or six years, it's a lot of school. And I remember him saying like you don't want to be five or six years, be my age, and looking back and regretting it and there was a side of me that I really wish I would have stuck with it and gone through the PhD.

Rene Garcia: 33:47

The main decision for me was my daughter. If I would not have taken the job up in Dallas and gone from my PhD, I know I would have had a successful career. I know I would have been a great psychologist and I know if I were to stay in Houston, I would probably live in a be living a very different life right now. But I wouldn't have my daughter and yeah, I mean at the core of it me moving up the Dallas to be closer to her, or she was like, by that time, six or seven just to be able to go to lunch with her on Fridays, you know, just be able to take her out on the weekend and just be there. If she got sick or her mom couldn't take her to school or do something, I could go and have me around her and just be present in her life.

Rene Garcia: 34:47

That was the reason I didn't do my PhD and, yes, I think now there's a lot more online options and you know, I think it's very costly too. I think I can't remember if you've had a I think you have. I think you had Luis on here. I need to listen to his episode. But you know, I think you got to have two people in your life people that can help you dream about things and then people that can help you Afford those dreams.

Rene Garcia: 35:12

Because I feel like there's a lot of people that, especially young people of color they're taking on all these student loans and all these debts and trying to get these titles and get all these accomplishments and then they're left at the end of the day with thousands of dollars in the hole of how do we pay this stuff back? And, yes, you're making these accomplishments, but honestly, man, it was expensive. It's going to be another cost, and I already have a ton of student loans, and so it was a couple of different reasons, the main reason being Lexi, but the second reason is being it was just like I couldn't afford it.

Rene Garcia: 35:39

Yeah, I can't just keep adding this stuff on and have this endless bill.

Rene Garcia: 35:42

So yeah, I would have loved to do it and if you can find someone to pay for your PhD, hey, good for you. But you know I don't regret it because I get to. You know my daughter, we get to laugh about things and she gets to. We have our relationship and she doesn't. You know, she doesn't have to wonder what I think about her. I only get to see her through certain timeframes or whatever it's. She knows I'm here for her and she knows I'm present in her life. And that was really the decision for me to not do that PhD.

Raul Lopez: 36:11

Yeah, it's funny because I always hear that like, oh, you're, you're, if you don't do it now, five years from now you're going to wish you do. Then I kind of had that same cycle with an MBA. I kept saying, oh, I'm going to work on getting my MBA in like 2010. When I moved to Houston and then we decided to go buy a house and I was like, well, I'm a hold off until next year. I have all this money that I'm putting towards the house and I we ended up losing that house and not buying the house.

Rene Garcia: 36:37

And then I ended up getting laid off.

Raul Lopez: 36:39

So I was like, okay, well, I can't afford to do anything now. Then fast forward. A few years later I'm like, okay, let me try doing this again. And that's when I ended up having my daughter and I was like, okay, let me fast forward again. And then I'm like, all right, I'm ready to go. And it was like right before we decided to move up North. And I was like, well, I can't do it now because I'm going to move up North and I do all that stuff. And by this point, what used to be a 20, 15 to 20,000 dollar program and now like a hundred thousand dollar program. And I'm like, holy shit, I'm not spending a hundred thousand dollars for an MBA when at this point it might be a 40 to a hundred thousand dollar salary increase, but it's still like too much to put in. Right now. I'm still paying off my undergrads and loans.

Rene Garcia: 37:15

Yeah, and then I was like I'll try it again now.

Raul Lopez: 37:18

And then I'm like my health issues. I'm like, do I want to waste my time? I'm like I'm having joining my daughter or having the same thing and at the end of the day I work life balance. My life is happier being able to be with my daughter and do stuff with her.

Raul Lopez: 37:29

Then whatever extra money I might have made from that, and you know, I have to just admit and not chase that you know, feels like you know, like a dragon. Are you trying to chase that dragon to get that that high and feel like you succeeded in?

Rene Garcia: 37:43

sometimes it's okay to say no.

Raul Lopez: 37:44

I think I think I'm a good wearer, Matt, and I'm happy with with. You know I'd like more, but you know I don't have to punish myself for some of the decisions I didn't make. Yeah.

Rene Garcia: 37:53

For, you know, I agree with that a hundred percent. I think for me it was, and I had to kind of like check my ego a little bit of like why am I, who am I doing this for? And what am I doing this for? Is it going to make me a better therapist? I don't know. I don't know. Will I be able to charge people more? Sure, but like what will the job entail? Like you know, like what will I be doing differently? I'd still be able to talk to people, I'll still be able to connect with people.

Rene Garcia: 38:23

And for me it was like I don't know, it wasn't like I could write prescriptions. I still couldn't write. You know, I'm not like, even though some people call me and ask me for drugs, like, hey, can you give me some Xanax? No, I cannot, I'm not that. No, not at all. That's not what I do.

Rene Garcia: 38:37

And so, yeah, there wasn't really a huge benefit for me at that time. And even now I have to keep reminding myself like you can do a lot of shit right now with what you got. You know, there's a lot of options and stuff that I can do in my career. And so I I think a lot of people are like I don't know. I think a lot of it. The core of it is just my ego of saying I just want it to be Dr René Garcia, you know. Like just the fucking like that's right. You know I did that, you know I'm an expert in this field and that's just a lot of ego. And that was at the core of it just an insecurity I had. I always felt like it wasn't enough. I always felt like I needed to do more.

Rene Garcia: 39:16

Even to this day, I feel like I need to keep highly. What am I not doing you? Know, and I think that's more me, and I had to accept that and realize I can't keep putting my family or myself in a deeper hole because I'm trying to make myself feel better. That's that can be addressed in a different type of way.

Raul Lopez: 39:35

Yeah, it's something you're saying. It's like you're chasing to get that doctor, you want to have something to accomplish it and then, I think, in time, your experience speaks for itself and you're able to leverage that experience to become more successful.

Raul Lopez: 39:52

And I think once I started realizing hey, I'm not good, I can't blame the fact that I don't have an MBA on why I'm not as successful as I was, and started changing my mentality and saying no, the reason I'm not successful is because I'm not chasing what I want more and just accepting what I'm being given. And I started being more bold with my not just career choices, but like what I'm asking for at work and then what's the next job, what's the salary I'm expecting and what's the next job going to provide me to help me move into the future position, as opposed to just saying, oh, I got to get going through the same thing because you felt kind of I always felt kind of like, oh, I'm not getting anywhere, it must be because I don't have an MBA, because everybody tells me I didn't be, and now I'm making a crap thermo money.

Raul Lopez: 40:34

I've doubled my salary in like five years and it's really just because I took some risk, I took some challenges and I still have an MBA, you know, and I still think there's a lot more for me to do that, but I have to accept that and, like you said, check your ego and start working and accepting that. So kudos to you and then kudos to me. I guess, yeah, absolutely.

Rene Garcia: 40:51

It's a tough thing to just be okay with where you're at and just like trusting the process a little bit, and I think the use that's something really interesting to me is like that idea of being bold and like being able to say like, okay, like, is this role or job serving me, is serving who am, my talents? And I had to leave a place. I was only there for a short period of time, but I was at a job that I hated and I was like, oh, I'm going to be a good driver. And the writing was on the wall because they'd say like, oh, we've, we've gone through like seven or eight therapists and like a couple you get two years. And I was like, oh, that's not good.

Rene Garcia: 41:30

You know, I I came from a place where, you know, people stayed there for 15, 20 years and here's a place that couldn't keep people here for like more than a couple of months, like that's already a bad sign. And then you get in there and you're like, oh, this is not anything that's enjoyable to me at all, it's not meeting any of my needs, and I think that like listening to yourself, being able to watch the writing on the walls and trusting the patient, trusting that process. Mentorship is a big one too. Making sure you have people around you that are doing things bigger and better than you and recognizing that that's not a threat, that they figured the system out and so you got to figure out what they know. That's a big thing too. I'm not trying to. I feel like this is me moving into like advice giving, so I don't want to do that, but that all that stuff was really helpful for me to realize that, oh, this place I don't need to be at, I need to be a different place.

Raul Lopez: 42:17

And, in all fairness, you, your understanding of what made you and I think a lot of the issues for a lot of us of not knowing how to succeed, is really in not just knowing where we wanna go, but knowing what we don't wanna go and admitting where we don't wanna go, Cause a lot of us will say.

Raul Lopez: 42:35

I'm fine here it's paying my bills, but I'm not happy. And sometimes you gotta be able to say I'm not happy here. Let me try something different and work when we do it and getting to where you wanna get. Sometimes it's more about understanding where you don't wanna go as opposed to where you do wanna go Cause.

Rene Garcia: 42:47

all of us wanna be successful.

Raul Lopez: 42:48

All of us wanna make money, but we don't wanna do this, we don't wanna do that. And as you start figuring it out, that path becomes clearer where you have to go and what you need to do to get there.

Raul Lopez: 42:55

So you know, it's not just advice giving and I'll fair it, this is fucking podcast is about advice caring, but through your personal journey. So but, like like I just mentioned, you started going through all your stuff and you went through stuff that you didn't like and you realized what you didn't like and then eventually you decided what your specialty is and your specialty is focused on on mental health. So tell me about that.

Rene Garcia: 43:15

Yeah, man. So about 2017 through 2019, I had a steady flow of clientele from a couple of referral sources, but they always tell you if you wanna have a private practice, you have to kind of be very specific about what people are, what types of people are being sent over to you and what's being referred to you. So about the end of 2019, I said, look back in, about 80 to 85% of my clientele was just single adult men. You know, some of them being some of the guys that you would just never expect to be in a therapy room. And so I said, you know what, obviously this is something that's kind of, you know, calling to me and spoke to some friends and kind of change up my marketing. And I said 2020, this is the year it's gonna happen. You know, 2020 is my year. I'm gonna change it. I'm gonna, you know, change up the name, put a tagline on it Garcia, mental Health, strengthen dialogue. You know, I want to really put this kind of like, you know, powerful message.

Rene Garcia: 44:14

And then, as we all know, the pandemic hit and it went crashing into the mountain. I got no referrals, you know, early on it slowed down to a halting stop and you know, back then you had to and I still think you do have to do special kind of training before you could do telehealth. Thankfully I did complete that in February, just out of sheer coincidence, that I was like maybe I'll offer this for some people, maybe some people will do it. And then April, I started getting calls and then June I started getting more calls and then I want to say by like July or August I was like on my first waiting list and so that I felt very grateful for that. People were wanting resources. I think people who had never had to face their mental health issues really had no choice at that moment because we were so isolated and had no clue what was going on.

Rene Garcia: 45:06

A lot of caretakers of their family were losing their jobs, losing their. We talked earlier about identity. You know, this identity of a caretaker, you know, for a lot of families can be the man in a heterosexual relationship and obviously that's not the case all the times. But I think again, you saw a lot of guys that didn't ever think that they would be losing their job, lost their job. How are they gonna care for their families? How are they gonna care for themselves if they got sick, if they were gonna survive.

Rene Garcia: 45:36

I mean, we all heard, I remember, you know, for better or worse, we heard about the most unique cases. You know, like, oh, there's a 28 year old ex tennis player who weighed 120 pounds, died from COVID. And you're like, oh, I got my cheeseburger in my hand, like what do you mean? If it gets that guy, it's gonna get me. And so it was just this constant scary. You know, you gotta stay in and I get it.

Rene Garcia: 46:02

What they were doing, but I also think it was, you know, looking back, I mean, it was just a very we didn't know what was going on, and so I think that affected a lot of people and I think they were really, for the first time, demanding some mental health services, and so I was able to build a lot of clientele during that time and people were wanting to utilize my services and I was very grateful that I was able to provide that to them. And I needed it myself too. I needed to make sure I was okay. And you know, I remember watching the Avengers and getting like a panic attack, you know, and Thanos snapped his fingers because I was like, oh my God, this is happening right now. I gotta turn this off.

Rene Garcia: 46:37

I gotta turn this off, and so you know I think it was just a very scary time, but I think coming out of that, it allowed me to further dive deeper into this and provide that service and say, look, you know, there are right now there is a number of men out there who are lost, who are not getting jobs, who are lonely, who people are discarding. And the ones that are being discarded are being picked up by the most scummiest, creepiest, shittiest people ever and saying, hey, come join my culty. You know way of talking about things and living their life. And I feel like, because these people have been discarded, they're turning into different, weirder, more awful people and I wanted to say how can I combat that? And I wanted to be a cisgendered, straight male who is able to talk about feelings and emotions, able to talk about working out in jujitsu, able to talk about going out and getting beers, able to talk about trans rights, able to talk about mental health issues, being transparent and vulnerable to people. And I felt that if I can just continue to remain in this space and provide that you know, that space for people in need, I'm doing my part to curb, you know, these further discarded people out from this community, because say what you want and I get it.

Rene Garcia: 48:00

You know, I credit a lot of the Me Too movement of holding men accountable for their actions, and I think absolutely we need to help men accountable for their actions. But after we behold them accountable for their actions, how are we working on their healing? Because we're very quick to say fuck this guy, lock him up. You know they need to be out, they need to be pushed out of our society, but no one wants to talk about OK. So how do they get better? How do we give them chances to not be that dangerous, terrible thing? How do we give them a chance to be loved and develop and grow and vulnerable and fearful in a way that's not aggressive or dangerous, you know, and so I think that to me, if the people who have been hurt by these men don't want anything to do with them, I understand that I'm not going to force them to do that.

Rene Garcia: 48:53

But that doesn't mean I can't provide that space if they're willing to join me. I'm not there to fix them. I'm not there to push them into healing. I'm there to provide them a space that, if they want to heal, I'm that guy and I want to do that with them.

Raul Lopez: 49:06

It's as a Latino man. Mental health is never really pushed upon at their early age and as we get older, you know I'm more accepting to it, I'm more open to it and you know we continually see in these interviews where people talk about their mental health and seeking the therapist and it kind of encouraged me too, where I now I've reached out and am seeking a therapist at the moment as well.

Raul Lopez: 49:31

And it's funny because they keep asking you what's wrong, Is there anything wrong? Well, nothing wrong, but I figure there's a lot of stuff.

Rene Garcia: 49:36

Well, this is beer. Oh yeah, Not a lot of stuff wrong with you, but you know nothing specific, Nothing specific.

Raul Lopez: 49:42

But you know, like, is there anything serious? Are you depressed? I'm like, no, not at all. But you know, I know there's benefit and I'm sure there's stuff that I can work on to improve myself. So let me take advantage of my insurance that I'm not using to take advantage of it. And so do you feel like that? For men it's harder to break that shell or get them to actually show in, come in and seek help. Or maybe has the pandemic kind of helped that, because people think you said we're more scared.

Rene Garcia: 50:07

Yeah, I think there's a lot of different ways people come to therapy, and, you know, a lot of the times it tends to be their partners that are calling in and saying hey, you know, I'd like to get an appointment for my husband, boyfriend, partner, whatever, and that's OK. I really don't care how people call that first session. I just want them to come to that first one and know that I'm not an asshole. I'm not here to diagnose you. My office is not stuffy, it's just a really kind of plain room. I'm not asking you to lay down on a couch and take notes, I just want to talk to you and get to know you, and so I think there is obviously still a pretty big stigma about exactly what you said right there. Ok, if I go to something, that means something is wrong. Therefore I am wrong, therefore I am not right, therefore I am a problem, and so that's one of the hardest things is to really almost surgically separate the problem. For the person, the problem is the problem. The problem may be a part of the person's life, but that doesn't mean that that's their identity, and so, as long as I can get them in there, even just. Hey, you have five minutes. Let me just chat with you about it, because a lot of times I get well, he may want help, but I don't know if he's going to go. I get it, have him, give me a call, shoot me a text. I'm just wanting to get to know you and then, once we get in that room, then we can figure something out.

Rene Garcia: 51:28

I always find it funny too, whenever clients are like I mean, I don't have anything bad. They say nothing bad happened and I'm like look, I don't want to be the bearer of bad news. You don't have to come in here and always talk to something that's terrible. We just it's a space, it's absolutely a space, and any good therapist will tell you their job is to work themselves out of a job. So you want to provide them a space that if they need the healing they need the development, it's there and one day it's not going to be needed. And I love that.

Rene Garcia: 51:55

When clients are like, hey, I think I'm good, I think I've reached this point and maybe I'll come see you once a month, or maybe I'll see you in a couple months, or I'll just let you know when I need another appointment and you just say great, absolutely, no problem. I'm here for you, let me know what resources you need, and that's just really how that process goes. And so, yeah, I think, as far as Latino men go, look, I wish I could sit here and tell you that my practice is full of nothing but Latinos. It is not.

Rene Garcia: 52:28

But that doesn't mean it's not something that I want to continue to work on and be a representative of our community and also get other people who are representations of our community out there saying, hey, us is people need to be talking about this stuff, and we have a lot of great resources for the Latino community out right now, and I think I do feel it changing. I feel a young generation not only wanting to talk about these things, like demanding mental health services, which I think is great, and so I think we just need to do a better job of making sure they know where we're at and, obviously, making things more affordable, for sure that everybody can go and get to these services.

Raul Lopez: 53:07

Yeah, and there's a lot of stuff that we go through, not just men, but a lot of it go through stuff. But one of the things that you've kind of helped me out a lot recently was for Fulton Fairfair. Everybody, you're one of my fraternity brothers. We're in the same fraternity. It's also, I think, a lot of the people I interview that start from my fraternity brother. I'm using my network to kind of start this all it's like a life insurance thing.

Rene Garcia: 53:31

You say OK who's close by.

Raul Lopez: 53:32

Yeah, I'm like, ok, I know you, I know you, and so, in all fairness, it's helped me motivate myself to do better my life because I see all these successful fraternity brothers. But one of the things you started in fraternity was a group for fathers, for dads. That I think has been tremendous, at least for me, to be able to not just listen in and ask questions and get advice, but also talk to others and see how others do things and how others work do things. Do you think being a father has helped you out in your specialty?

Rene Garcia: 54:03

Oh my god. Yeah, I think it's been a life-changing experience for a number of different ways. I think it's clearly made me a better man, clearly helped me become a more empathetic therapist. I think doing that dad's group I need to be better at consistency of it, but life's crazy right now. But there was a group of dads in our organization that were just a Facebook group and I thought, man, wouldn't it be cool if we had monthly meetings? And I think there's an old saying from an older guy in our organization that said turn ideas into actions. And I love that idea of OK, yeah, this is something I would like and we start doing these monthly dad meetings. And it was just to me, it was beautiful seeing a group of men who you would think these are macho dudes, you know. You know like we have a lot of Northeast brothers, you know, yo, I'm mad. I'm mad proud of my son.

Rene Garcia: 55:11

You know what I'm saying, like you, know talking like that and hearing them basically like gush over like how proud and love they are being a dad and loving their kids and and you know we're in I'm in Texas, so seeing these really Mexican machismo guys that they'll build you a house before they tell you that I love you, that's kind of thing but then openly talking about how proud they were to see their kids score a soccer goal or something like that, you know, I mean, that was a sign to me that I need to keep doing this and keep offering that space. And so I think fatherhood is the key as well to how do we not only provide men to heal but almost incentivize fatherhood, because the more we can get men being excited to be dad and understanding the importance of that role in a child's life, like it is absolutely, absolutely necessary for you to be involved in their life. You are needed, they want you, they want to be a part of your life and it's like a privilege to be a dad was such a huge part of who I am and even Lydia, my fiance, is like you know, lexi is the best part of you easily, you know, and and she's true because I just feel like when you have that person and you know you, her responsibility is yours and you know when she's away from you, it's the worst and when she's with you, it's the best, and you just want to see every little aspect of their life and see them grow and seeing them accomplish things. It's just such an amazing thing. And so, yeah, I could go on and on about fatherhood and it's something I want to do is I've been involved with my practice.

Rene Garcia: 56:54

I kind of made a little teaser announcement thing of it earlier, a couple months ago, but I'm definitely going to make it a part of my practice, trying to nail out some further details about it. But, yeah, fatherhood has been everything for my life and also I've been doing a lot of stuff and going around colleges here in these last couple months and it's amazing hearing this generation Z talk about, like, wanting to be parents and excited to be parents, like you know these young kids with the broccoli haircuts and you know the long hair and the hats, and you know I'm excited to be a dad and that to be like this is amazing. So I don't know I could. We could talk the whole day, I'm sure, about fatherhood, but, to answer your question, it has been the linchpin or of who I am as a therapist and, as a man, is definitely been being a dad.

Raul Lopez: 57:44

And I think we're definitely going to have a special episode for Father's Day where we talk about it and stuff, because it's different.

Rene Garcia: 57:51

I mean the way.

Raul Lopez: 57:52

I was raised compared to how I'm raising my daughter is completely different the exact you know, even my dad, who you know when growing up very strong and he's more.

Raul Lopez: 58:02

You know he was his way, his way or the highway, and he talks to me now. He's like man. I wish I raised you guys the way you raise Eva. You know the way you talk to you, like I didn't have a dad, I didn't know what I was doing and you know I tried my best and I'm glad you guys still love me after everything. But you know the way you talk to her and the way you explain things to her and the way you don't just blow up on her and you know that you can apologize, for when you do blow up on her and show vulnerability.

Raul Lopez: 58:30

It's like he's like, it's different and I think it takes a lot of courage for an old machismo immigrant to be able to open up in his 60s and be honest with me about, hey, I don't know what I was doing either and I tried my best, you know, and so that comes a long way too, but I think it's all, it's all relative and I think it's all helpful. So, like I said for me, I thought that group that you created has helped me out a lot. I even tell my people like to me, if you're like group therapy sessions, sometimes just let's let him go and talking, and yeah, it's wonderful.

Rene Garcia: 59:00

So well, it's interesting because I have. I remember talking to another I forget who was, but I was there were not part of organization and I was like, yeah, you probably like a good dad's group or something like that. You know, I have one for my organization and they're like, where do I find that? And I was like, oh god, I really I forgot that.

Rene Garcia: 59:16

What a what a privilege we have that this space is so available to us, because I think there are a lot, I think, but there are not. There are like a million moms groups, like so many moms group, so much mom culture and it, it just it makes me jealous because I just wish dads had the same thing and I feel like again, it's a weird way of saying it, but it's like again, we need to incentivize being dad, incentivize being fathers, and I think the way we do it is creating these spaces, respecting them. That you know, these are dads who want to get better, and that's my little tagline is is that this is not a place for us to judge each other, is not a place for one dad to be better than the other. We're just trying to survive and even.

Rene Garcia: 59:59

I'll give a transparency to like. I'm not a you know I'm not a dad, so my daughter lives with her mom or stepdad. Even that experience of you know my role versus the stepdad's role and being able to trust that she's in a home that is being loved in and and being able to capitalize, when she's with me, that time there, as a county down the seconds when she needs to leave, how am I indulging in every second that she is here and so yeah anyways, we I would love to be a part of that because I think it's such a huge thing and I want to continue to have that be a part of not only my practice but just my life, of continuing to prioritize and incentivize being a dad.

Raul Lopez: 1:00:39

Awesome man. Well, one of the things I always like to ask when I get to the end of the interview is if you go back in time and talk to young Rene and give him some piece of advice. What's something you tell yourself?

Rene Garcia: 1:00:56

you need that extra bundle set no, I would say I would say trust your gut. I think there was a lot of times that I knew exactly what I need to do but I did not trust my gut and my gut was looking back about 99% correct, so very insecure decision making. But yeah, just trust your gut.

Rene Garcia: 1:01:25

And it's okay to have regrets, because the people that say I live life with no regrets man is. I just think that's insane. You had to got to have regrets because that was helped you. That's what helps you make better decisions in the future.

Raul Lopez: 1:01:42

Amen, that was awesome. Well, thank you, and trust me for someone who's always had a big gut, I never listened to it either, so, but thank you so much, man. I really appreciate you taking the time. You know, as always, I love talking to you and I definitely hope to have you back on with more insight in the future. But for everyone else this thing, thank you so much as always, I appreciate the support and I hope you'll join me next time as we continue to learn how to say success in Spanish. Thanks, bro.

Raul Lopez: 1:02:14

No worries man, I appreciate it.