How Do You Say Success in Spanglish?
The path to success isn’t paved for people of color. Join me as I sit down with individuals who share their stories as we learn how to say Success in Spanglish.
How Do You Say Success in Spanglish?
Unwavering Latina Leader & Advocate - Carol Sainthilaire
Carol Sainthilaire is a distinguished leader in the fields of nonprofit management, housing policy, and community development. With a career spanning over a decade, Carol has consistently demonstrated her commitment to creating meaningful change in communities through her strategic leadership and programmatic expertise.
As the current Executive Director of The Waterfront Project, Inc., Carol is at the helm of an organization dedicated to providing free civil legal representation and assistance to New Jersey residents who are asset-limited, income-constrained, homeless, or disenfranchised. Reporting directly to the Board of Trustees, she oversees the strategic and operational aspects of the organization, ensuring the effectiveness and efficiency of its programs, financial management, and communications.
Carol is known for her exceptional leadership skills, strategic vision, and unwavering commitment to community development. Her ability to engage multiple stakeholders and drive impactful programs makes her a respected figure in her field. With her extensive professional and lived experience and dedication, Carol continues to be a driving force in preventing homelessness, preserving affordable housing, and promoting neighborhood stability. She is not just a leader but a catalyst for positive change in the communities she serves.
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Summary:
What if you had the chance to sit down and learn from a Latina leader in community development, housing policy, and nonprofit management? Here's your golden opportunity! This episode features an intimate conversation with Carol Sainthilaire , an inspirational figure who not only navigated the journey from growing up in a low-income family to attaining a successful career, but who continues to pave the way for others. Carol's story is one of resilience, determination, and an unwavering commitment to basic human rights.
As the daughter of Dominican immigrants, Carol had firsthand experience with the struggles her family faced and the sacrifices they made. These experiences, along with the cultural shock of transitioning from a Dominican hometown to study at Boston University and later stepping into a male-dominated professional world, shaped her perspective and fueled her passion for advocacy. She opens up about her father's justice involvement, her experience with job loss, and her tireless advocacy for returning veterans. Carol's leadership journey is one filled with bravery and resilience, as she battles against societal structures and personal obstacles like impostor syndrome.
Carol's story extends to her personal life as well, throwing light on her commitment to her home in Hudson County and her creative touch in interior design. We learn about her infamous bunny mansion and her plans for the future, including her desire to end homelessness for both humans and animals. This episode is a testament to Carol's relentless dedication, her ability to navigate complex systems, and her commitment to creating a better future. Join us as we celebrate her journey,
See more at www.successinspanglish.com
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Intro Song: Regaeton Pop - Denbow Ambiance
This is Raul Lopez, and you're listening to. How Do you Save Success in Spanglish? The path to success isn't easy For minorities and people of color. Many attempt to journey with little to no guidance. Join me as I sit down with individuals who share their stories of perseverance so that together we can learn how to save success in Spanglish. What's good me, hente? It's your boy, raul. Welcome back Today. I have a friend of mine from college. Haven't talked to you in a while, carol St Lear, how's it going?
Carol Sainthilaire:Good morning, buenos dias.
Raul Lopez:Buenos dias. You know, carol and I go way back since college days and I was one of the first people I hit up with Once. I decided I want to do this podcast and it's been a bit of a journey in itself just getting you scheduled because you are an amazingly busy woman, which says a lot about you. So to let everybody understand how busy you are, let me give you a buyer real quick.
Raul Lopez:Karen St Lear is a distinguished leader in the fields of non-profit management, housing policy and community development. With the career spanning over a decade, carol has consistently demonstrated her commitment to creating meaningful change in communities through her strategic leadership and programmatic expertise. As the current executive director of the Waterfront Project Incorporated, carol is at the helm of an organization dedicated to providing free civil legal representation and assistance to New Jersey residents who are asset-limited, income-constrained, homeless and disenfranchised. Reporting directly to the Board of Trustees, she oversees the strategic and operational aspects of the organization, ensuring the effectiveness and efficiency of its program, financial management and communication. Carol is known for her exceptional leadership skill, strategic vision and unwavering commitment to community development. Her ability to engage multiple stakeholders and drive impactful programs make her a respectful figure in her field, with her extensive professional and lived experience and dedication. Carol continues to be a driving force in preventing homelessness, preserving affordable housing and promoting neighborhood stability. She's not just a leader but a catalyst for positive change in the community. She serves. Very impressive, Very amazing.
Carol Sainthilaire:Ask my parents what I do. I give out Section 8.
Raul Lopez:Isn't that a typical?
Carol Sainthilaire:Don't know what I do.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, it's one of those things where you know, whatever you do, my son still works IT and they still send me people to fix computers. Oh, my son does IT, he can help fix your computer. I'm like I haven't done it.
Carol Sainthilaire:No, it's literally. It's like can you get an apartment for so-and-so who's coming back from?
Raul Lopez:DR.
Carol Sainthilaire:It's like that's not what I do. And that's also not how the system works is. I've worked in creating the systems so that not just anybody just shows up and says like give me this.
Raul Lopez:But yeah, nice, I mean. Yeah, it's a tale as old as time for Latino parents sometimes. Well, just to kind of start off, let's start off with the big bang question and tell me who is Carol.
Carol Sainthilaire:Who is Carol? Carol is the daughter of two hardworking Dominican immigrants who came to this kind of country in search of a better life. My father came legally to this country and I only say that just for you know, I don't know what your audience is like, but he came here and he worked removing asbestos in New York and, you know, would kind of go back and forth between DR and the states, new York. You know, from where we set up Rooton, washington Heights, my father basically brought his whole family over, his sisters, his brothers, you know all are now US citizens because of you know the immigration laws back then, but really my father was the first one and then he brought my mother over.
Carol Sainthilaire:After they started dating and then they got married here and my mother came here on an expired visa in state and had me and you know, I am very proudly an anchor baby and my mother is now.
Carol Sainthilaire:Both my parents are US citizens and again, you know I don't like to bring it back to politics, but sometimes when you hear that rhetoric of you know these illegals, I wouldn't be considered a US citizen if some people had their way. So that is, for me, a very important part of my journey and who I am, because it just you know. The work that I do is making sure that everyone has access to basic human rights. Beyond being Dominican, I am from New Jersey. Although I was born in New York in Harlem Hospital, I have been in Jersey since I was two, in Hudson County specifically, which is now where I work or I own my home, and you know that means something in Jersey. You are from Hudson County and I really love being able to serve the people that I grew up with. The longest time I have been away from Hudson County was the four years.
Raul Lopez:I was in.
Carol Sainthilaire:Boston. I went to school with you, Raul, at Boston University. But yeah, no, Hudson County, big melting pot in Northern Jersey, right across the river. I apologize for the background noise. My rabbit is now chewing on a box.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, and I'm going to talk about we're going to talk a little bit about your rabbits and your bunnies and stuff like that, Because that's another big part of you. But you know, just, you know to go back kind of where you were talking about. You know, it's funny because it was similar with me. We came, my dad did actually cross the border illegally, but I ended up coming and with my mom and then just have expired visas and never came back and we were here illegally for a long time. But it's funny, the same thing where it's like my mom was here but my dad was the only one here for like 20 something years and now, like almost most of his sisters, are in the United States too. They're all citizens, they own homes, you know, just slowly start bringing in there and making positive impacts on their community.
Carol Sainthilaire:I don't think we can. We don't have the luxury of talking about our history and who we are, I think, even as first generation, without having to get a little political, like it's just immigration is not all that Latinos care about, but it just plays a huge role in you know, whatever our background was, and if you're Cuban, it's a completely different experience. And if you're Mexican, then if you're, you know Central. American if you're Haitian again. Dominicans and Haitians share the same island and it's completely different immigration story.
Carol Sainthilaire:So I just unfortunately, I can't get away from that and I don't want to. I think that my parents struggle as part of. You know who I am today.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, and it's funny because when you talk about it, it's such an interesting climate now that you don't know what where it's to say from what you are. You know it was like for a long time I used to be an illegal immigrant. Now I'm an undocumented. I was undocumented for a long time and you're you're worried about who am I going to tell my story, about what in case, what they think, and stuff like that. But it is a part of us. I mean, our struggles are what kind of builds us and make us stronger. So, and I know one of the things you mentioned when I talked in your pre interview is that your father had an accident that really affected your family living conditions. Can you tell me a little bit about that?
Carol Sainthilaire:Yeah, I think it was 1993. So we had been in the same house since 88. The owner sold it to another couple. He was Puerto Rican, she was Guatemalan. I grew up with the girls, but we were living in this house longer than the actual owner tied. So in about 1993, my father was a janitor at Columbia University, which is where I always wanted to go to school Didn't get in.
Carol Sainthilaire:So salty about that, and he, he was a janitor and you know again, there's never been shame in the work that he did. My mother was a seamstress. My mother has no formal education, but so yeah. So my dad was cleaning and he fell down a few flights of stairs. He really hurt his back, some herniated discs, dislocated his shoulder or needed extensive surgery and was out of work for a while If it hadn't been for one our church community. My parents raised me some day out of this. I'm no longer practicing, but I will say that the church and the community that we had really, you know, they took us in and they provided you know, anything we needed we got, and somehow my father ended up with a section eight voucher from the North Bergen Housing Authority.
Carol Sainthilaire:And again to be able to see I was what. Seven in 1993, and now me, at 37, 30 years later, like I now know what a section eight voucher is, I've issued section eight vouchers, I like. That's the world I'm ingrained in. So yeah, so you know, my parents were facing, you know, difficulty paying the bills and we qualified for a voucher. My mother, you know, worked as a seamstress, but I'm pretty sure she was probably making the money under the table. And then my dad lost his job and it took a while for the disability to come in. My parents valued education. They valued Catholic education, because las monjas know how to teach and how to be strict. So, even though we weren't practicing Catholics and you know, basically I go have religion class at the Catholic school with Sister.
Carol Sainthilaire:Catherine and everyone else at St Anthony's of Padua and Union City. I would then come home and like, be like that's wrong, that's wrong and whole levels of you know, trauma and confusion there. You know, because we weren't Catholic, the tuition was $216 back then, money my mother brought in from being a seamstress. That's what would pay for my tuition. And you know, every year when we had to buy the uniforms and the shoes and stuff like that, like it was a struggle, you know I joked that I didn't realize I was poor until I got to Boston, until I got to U, and I'm like, oh, this makes sense Because we, I started thrifting.
Carol Sainthilaire:I started thrifting before. It was cool, we had a Salvation Army up the street and that's where we would go. My mom and my Thea would call it Macy's. So I thought I was shopping at Macy's the whole time and that everyone had to wash their clothes when they bought them. And now I know it's because you know their second hand clothes and you know Salvation Army was a beautiful Salvation Army but like you know it had that and that smell still takes me and I'm like I don't like the smell of like. I love thrifting but like even walking in just takes me back to like being little and you know, shopping at the Salvation Army. I thought was Macy's.
Carol Sainthilaire:So, but again I say I wasn't. I never realized I was poor because I didn't need anything.
Carol Sainthilaire:My mother was seamstress, I would design my clothes. I was always chubbier so I couldn't just like go well, one. We couldn't afford the clothes of like going into a Mandy's or a limited two or whatever. But stores were around back then, you know. So I would design my outfits and my mom would make them for me. We would go to the, to the cloth store and we would take the bus and get to the cloth store and you know she would buy the materials and I'd get to choose I want this, I want that, and she'd make it for me. I would just lay my Saturday church outfits my mom made them Again.
Carol Sainthilaire:I never needed or wanted for anything. I had housing. I had an education. I never had to. I never worked before getting to college either. I never had to have a job Again, not because we couldn't use the money, but because my parents were like you're not going to go through what we did and they valued education over everything. My sister has like three masters and you know she was born and raised in the art and basically had to start over here, even though she had a master's, a bachelor's and a master's in the Dominican Republic. She had to come here and you know now she's a successful CPA and you know she's successful.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, it's. It's funny. My parents were the same way, where when they came to work I wasn't allowed to work. My dad was very against the idea of work. He I had to fight tooth and nail to be allowed to do work when I was in high school like my junior year is when he allowed me, but I had to like fight for every opportunity of freedom because in his mentality he's like I don't want you to like money, I want you to like education, I want you to get educated. You know where you would go to. He was a truck driver, so you know blue collar and we would go to his job and I'd jump in like truck with him and his coworkers would come in oh are you gonna show him how to drive the truck?
Carol Sainthilaire:He's like no.
Raul Lopez:I don't want him to like being sitting in front of a truck, Like he was just so scared of that because they worked so hard to get you here.
Carol Sainthilaire:It's funny you say that because it's like I come from a long generation of seamstresses, like my mom, my grandmother. My grandmother had dementia, like she couldn't even speak towards the end and she would be sitting in a rocking chair and she would grab her house coat and like she would make the hem as if it was the hem, like she would still be like doing the movements, like the muscle memory. My mother's been sewing. She was six. My thea's here. That also moved to New Jersey, you know, after my mom moved here they also. I can't sell on a button and I wonder.
Carol Sainthilaire:Now I'm like, why didn't my mom teach me her place value in that? And I wonder if it's the same thing with your dad that like she didn't want me to even have that skill set because she wanted more for me.
Raul Lopez:And now. I wish I knew how to sew, but yeah, yeah and I was gonna say I have a 10 year old daughter that's gonna listen to this and be really jealous of cause she loves the idea of making outfits and you know, taking things and redoing it, and my wife is like, you know she's okay with sewing, but you know we don't have the time. She's like I'm sure she's gonna be like oh my God, I wish I had a seamstress, mommy.
Carol Sainthilaire:I have a sewing machine. It's just sitting in the basement collecting dust, for whenever my parents visit, I'm like here, mom, these are all the things that I couldn't fix for John, and I'd rather just you know give you the money and have you do it.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, and it's funny because you mentioned earlier that your dad worked at Columbia and that was one of your the schools you wanted to go to, but you didn't go. You didn't end up getting accepted. So what was the journey to trying to get into college?
Carol Sainthilaire:Um, I mean, I was a straight A student, like straight A plus student. My husband, john, who's not Latino, he's a white mutt from Northern Virginia. He always jokes like I would have hated you in high school and grammar school, elementary school, because I would be the person that if I didn't get straight A pluses meaning all hundreds I'd cry and ask for extra credit. And I think it was just always in me. Like you know, you need to get a scholarship, you need to go to school, you need to go to a good school. So you know I always had that drive. You know, first it started at just fear like, oh my God, I gotta be my dad's gonna yell at me or, you know, spank me or something Like again my generation you were allowed to spank kids, voting physical, you know, but yet no, I was terrified.
Carol Sainthilaire:But then that terror turned into like no, I wanna be the one that gets straight A pluses, and you know, I would get extra credit and like get 105 out of 100 and test Like I was just that obnoxious kid. And then in high school, like I just worked my butt off, I went to high tech high school, which is a it's part of the county and you need to like test into it. So all of our classes were honors level. So our GPA was, you know, on a higher scale than just 4.0. I managed to take, you know, even though I suck at science, I'm not good at it, but I still like took, I made it up to chemistry, physics, like I took all the classes and all the math. So that so much my senior year. I was barely taking classes because I had met all of my requirements. And then some I was in the National Honor Society, the National Hispanic Honor Society, not the actual Honor Society.
Carol Sainthilaire:There were a lot of things because of my parents religious beliefs, that I couldn't like participate extracurricular activities. So some of the Adventists observed sunset Friday to sunset Saturday as a Sabbath, they're Christian and everything. But I couldn't do anything after school that any extracurriculars that involved stuff Friday night or Saturday during the day, because I was a church. So, even though with that limitation, I still did internships, I did a lot of community work with the church as well. I went to Europe on a church school trip, so I always had all that, but my dedication was always like I need to get a full ride. I applied to like nine colleges, I think it was. We still had like the common app back then. So, also because I was low income, the school, my high school would give me like the free application coupons or something like that.
Carol Sainthilaire:Yeah, it's been like 30 years so I can't well, not 30, it's been 20 years. I can't remember like all of it, but I remember like trying to be as strategic as possible because I didn't want to have to submit nine different applications. So if I did a few with the common core and then a few on their own, and then school helped me subsidize all of that, I think in the end my dad ended up helping me out with like 200 bucks, with a few, but again, for my education there was no limit on the money we could spend. I remember when BU came to school because I wasn't like I'm a hardcore Yankee fan, so the thought of going to Boston was like ill. Boston gave me the most money, gave me the most aid, still some student loans, but between work, study and then being an RA like BU when we were there was about 50 grand a year with Rumen Worth, a Georgia grant, and I mean I graduated with under 30,000 in student debt from BU. My master's is a whole other story and I'm still an indentured servant.
Carol Sainthilaire:But yeah, I mean, it was sort of all of that. I knew I needed to get good grades, to go to a good school and get as much money for free. Rutgers was throwing money at me to go Like I would have basically gone for free that's the state school here but I didn't want to go to Rutgers. That's where half of my high school was going and honestly I wanted to get away from most of those people. Arizona State and Florida International also threw a bunch of money at me, but BU had one of the best international relations programs and that's what I wanted to do.
Carol Sainthilaire:I wanted to be a diplomat and work at an NGO and do things again back in my community, because back then it was sort of I don't know if you feel like this, like are we from here or are we from there?
Carol Sainthilaire:Like I very much a Dominican-American. I don't say I'm an American first, because this country, quite frankly, has never except, like I don't know half of the things of American culture. Who's raised in a very Dominican household. My mother to this day doesn't speak a lick of English but I'm fully bilingual because she wanted to make sure she only spoke to me in Spanish because she's like when you're an adult, when you're looking for work, you're gonna get paid more, you're gonna be have more opportunities excuse me if you're bilingual. So my parent, you know, my mother even sacrificed being able to speak in this country for my better wellbeing. So anyway, that to me was like what I wanted to do. I wanted to go back to the Dominican Republic and, like you know, work there and sort of be a liaison and do humanitarian work that way. So the humanitarian stuff was always very much in me. But it's funny how I went from like international NGO to local nonprofit where I'm literally working, where I live and where I grew up.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, and it's an interesting concept. I think too, as immigrant parents, where your goals and not the expectation. But there's no in between. I think in success if you're going for the biggest, highest paying, most successful career you can get, and that's always gonna be your goal early on and I wanted to be a cardiologist. You know what I mean. I wanted to be a heart surgeon. That was my goal. And then you hit your speed bumps and you realize I can be successful somewhere in the middle too.
Carol Sainthilaire:I don't need to go and be or you learn that you faint when you eat blood. I wanted to be a pediatrician when I was little and then they took out some blood and I fainted and they were like all right, that dream is over.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, yeah, and it's funny, as you know, like I said, my whole time you're thinking if I'm not gonna be a doctor, I failed my parents, I failed everything they came up with. And then now they're like so super proud of what I have accomplished because it's just a lot more than they ever thought, even though I'm not at that point of where I thought I wanted to be. You know so. So you mentioned you went to college, at BU, and you didn't realize you were poor until you got to BU. So tell me what your experience at BU was like.
Carol Sainthilaire:Well, one, there were like how many Latinos? We were like five people. I still didn't even discover Latinos Unidos or like any of the groups, or even the I think I went to one party at 504 freshman year and then the cops broke it up and I just ran out. That was like I was at 504 for like five minutes.
Raul Lopez:Anyway but now it's just like no one looked like me.
Carol Sainthilaire:I remember like even seeing the, so to me it's like I was a Dominican, like whatever Dominican from here, from there, and then the international students that would come in were loaded like Louis Vuitton's and like all I had was a coach bag that my dad it was a beautiful ground coach bag that I had for like a decade afterwards my dad had found in the trash at Columbia and that was my first like that was my fancy purse and I was just kind of like, oh my God, here I am, I got this from the trash and here are these like Dominican girls that I would even try to make the connection with. But it was like they were these rich girls from, like you know, affluent Dominican families and I'm like from Notre Araso in Santo Domingo, which is like the hood I'm from, my family where we laid roots. It was the hood, but I mean I loved it. I had two childhoods, my Dominican one and my American one, and it was great, but I kind of there that was one of the differences I noticed. And then, like, I saw my first G-Wagon in Boston and it was just like a girl. She just like dragged a classroom or G-Wagon and I was like, you know, taking the T because we could take it up comment for free, I think way back then but down we would have, if you're going towards 10 more square, you had to pay. So I would take the T up because it was free and then I would walk back because I was at the school that was the general studies one, and yeah, it was just like.
Carol Sainthilaire:And then I did find like a few people that were like you know, either from New Jersey or Massachusetts, that were like, oh, these are the Latinos I'm used to. And yeah, you know, like I made friends from. It wasn't all bad. But then I made friends that were like from completely different backgrounds. Tina Silverberg was my next door neighbor at Warren Towers and we're still friends to this day and again, she's from Connecticut and she was the first Jewish person I ever met. And then I started eating bacon and I'm like you're not supposed to eat bacon, I can't eat bacon because it was just so much.
Carol Sainthilaire:And again, I grew up in such a culturally diverse like. My friends were Filipino, korean, you know, egyptian, ecuadorian, cute, like everything, but it was again, you were Hudson County, white, and when then you go to a place like Boston, which you know historically isn't all that mixed. It was just different. And I think that that's part of college and you find out who you really are when you're, you know, out of your comfort zone. And then I have to say I was really, really lucky to find all of you guys in the field does and you know, raul Fernandez, raul.
Raul Lopez:Lopez.
Carol Sainthilaire:Regal, like all of you guys, just the last two years of college, I think, is really when I found all of you and I think it like freshman year was rough again, the culture shift, missing my family. You know, I had a boyfriend and then we broke up and like all of this stuff. You know, my great, it was the first time I had gotten a C. Like I was, I was struggling, but then it's like I kind of had to wake up like if you get another C, you're going to lose your scholarship. And then like you've failed, and I had that pressure on me that all right, you need to get it together. Like no more, like partying or like not paying attention. And I also had to do work, study, I worked at the law library on campus on those just part of, and I worked there all four years by the end of it.
Carol Sainthilaire:I was making nine, 10 an hour as a manager and I was like I loved it. Um, but, but yeah, I think that you know it and I always encourage anybody that one if you want.
Carol Sainthilaire:If your kid doesn't want to go to college, don't force them, because I speak from experience. Like this is all I ever wanted and it was hard for me. So if it's a kid that doesn't want it, give them either the time to figure it out or like all right, what else can you do? And then two, it's just it takes a lot of work and I think for us first generations, there's just so much pressure that you need to succeed and you need to get good grades because we have scholarships, your parents can afford it, and that was sort of a little bit of a mind F. I'm not going to first Um, my, my, freshman year.
Raul Lopez:We're not going to be in charge of it.
Carol Sainthilaire:I don't know your demographic, Um, but then honestly, to me, meeting all of you guys was just it changed my college experience is something so much more positive. And you know, I I always said I never joined sororities but I was a field thena at heart.
Carol Sainthilaire:It's built up to so many of you guys and you, you show up in my adult life. I'm like how is it? I cannot get away from that. I'm almost 40 and I'm still like running, like what it's funny. One of my really one of my good guy friends, like you know, we met randomly and it's like a group of us that go together to do like Dominican stuff. Um, he's like, oh yeah, you know, I'm a field down, like I had no idea. Um, yeah, I just you know, um, and then even for you guys, like I remember we went to the was it the Dominican American National?
Carol Sainthilaire:Roundtable at Yale. Like we all, I rented a car, we all went together Um and we stayed at the seediest hotel in New Haven and, like I, honestly I think there were like even people living in the hotel.
Raul Lopez:It was just gross.
Carol Sainthilaire:And we went there, we had the best time and we were freaking.
Raul Lopez:Yale.
Carol Sainthilaire:Like, where else were you going to see this massive group of you know round kids walking around Yale? So, um, you know, I think college is just such an amazing experience and be you, even though it was a bumpy start for me. Um, you know, I love it and anyone I can encourage to go there. It's expensive, but it's. It's a really great school.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, it's. I think the common theme a lot of times is finding the community that helps rate, lift you up when you get to college is always a struggle at first because you're used to one thing slightly different and the same boat as you, you know, went to college and it was the first time I rent my real, my first real rich people, my first, you know, I had a buddy who I was friends with another brother of Jose and he, he had a lot of money, he was rich. So I went to study with him one night and this dude was like, oh, spend the night. I was like, let's go to the store, Okay. So we went to the store and he, he's like he's going to get a soda. And I was like, I don't got no money on me, but I'll just, you know, chill.
Raul Lopez:He's like, do you want a soda? Like, all right, if you want. He's okay. He's like, oh, go grab some toothpaste and some deodorant and a toothbrush and all this. He bought me all the stuff for the one, the 10 hours I was at his house. He bought me a whole, you know, everything else it was going on vacation. So you know, you hear those stories of people and you notice it too at the end of the semester, when people are throwing away stuff that you would have.
Raul Lopez:I know you're like why are you throwing away a TV and why?
Carol Sainthilaire:are you funny, I still have that habit now. Now I have the habit of like, if I see something good, I mean again, I used to shop at this location, army but like I now think about like, oh, the clients that you know I have, or I'm still so connected to the homeless, you know system here and I'm like, oh, people are throwing away perfectly good things, like I will take it and then I'll, I'll hold it in a storage unit, my basement, and then be like, oh, does someone need this? And I like give it to them. So I feel like that's never. You know, and again, we are by no means rich, but we are comfortable.
Carol Sainthilaire:you know between me and my husband that you know, and I also do feel that that is another really immigrant thing that even you will give the shirt off your back to somebody who has less than you, and I will always do that. And you know again, my parents always taught me to you open your home, you open, you know, whatever you have to share with people and I still do that.
Raul Lopez:It's funny the way you mentioned that you're. You're constantly thinking about what you get. Now, even though we're living a much more comfortable life, you're still looking at stuff and, like I, sometimes I get rid of stuff and I'm like, oh, I have to. Where can I go donate this? Who can I go give this to? You know, I don't want to just throw things away. I get toys we have. I don't know how it is where you guys have it over here.
Carol Sainthilaire:We have like those buy nothing groups on Facebook and so I'm always like who wants this and who needs this and who wants to take this and you have a community center in the neighborhood and I drop everything off there, like to me, if I can give anything a second life, just because I knew what it was like to like get something that for someone else was trash, what they were like throwing away and we gave it a second life and sometimes even a third life, is then, when I grew out of it, we would send it to the Dominican Republic. So I just believe that and again, I'm not going to give people I think that this is one thing I've learned in the field that I'm in is like I'm not going to give away, like my holy shirts or like things with huge stains, like no, I'm, these are things that you know.
Carol Sainthilaire:I'm just not going to wear either for it doesn't fit me anymore, or fashion or whatever, and I drop it off like garbage bags full of stuff. And I do the same thing with my husband, I do the same thing with my cousins Like, I'm like, oh, do you have?
Carol Sainthilaire:anything. I know people that can give it away, like even for there is this company in downtown Jersey City who like reached out to like we're remodeling our offices and we have like brand new like TVs and couches. I took all of it and whatever we didn't use for our office at the waterfront. I'm like the staff need it, because I also know you know our staff either know people or also you know I don't know everyone's financial situation at work. So I always believe in giving things a second life and never assuming that because it's not useful to me, it's garbage.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, yeah. And so you mentioned in your bio about lived experience and I think it's kind of correlated to all that stuff you're housing and giving and how has your lived experience helped you mold your career?
Carol Sainthilaire:I mean, I think that we, we now know, we now have words like equity and like we now understand equity, that, like you know, you and me, versus, like you know, to white people from you know somewhere else, with parents that weren't immigrants, probably had access to other opportunities, that we did it. We had to fight a little harder for it.
Carol Sainthilaire:It's sort of like you know, where we're not all at the same level. But there's a really good illustration. That's like you know, the fence is at the same level but someone's, you know, has one stool and then you know, the last person has no stool and they can't see over the fence.
Carol Sainthilaire:So that's the way I look at it, and it's not woe me, or we're victims of this horrible system, like just as what it is. We had to work a little harder and I use that and my parents experience and my family's experience to help me create a better world and better systems for people who are just one paycheck away from homelessness. And I think in the Latino culture we I don't think we really we do everything in terms of family, like, oh, we all live, like together. Even in the apartment we lived in in New York it was my parents, my auntie, my mima, my mima, son Kia, then my uncle who would come from DR to like work for a little bit, like I don't know, he probably had a social he would use. I don't know, I don't ask questions, I mean he would go back and forth, so like my house was always full of people that like probably weren't on the lease, so that's something. And then when we moved to New Jersey again we rented, we even had section eight, but there were people always coming in and out. Like I had one cousin who lived with me through all the fourth grade. She would go to school with me during the week and then go to the Bronx to be with her parents. I don't remember why, but I think that all of that helps me understand the people that come to me or the organizations I work for for help For the federal government, if you are doubled up, you're not considered homeless. So if you don't have, if you're not on the lease but you're, basically Raul is letting me stay with him for three months, raul can change his mind tomorrow and kick me out and I'm homeless. So that's something that, because of my lived experience, I can say, you know, like all right, the federal government isn't gonna let me, you know, help this person because they don't fit this box. But we need to make this box be bigger and more inclusive or find a loophole around the box or create a new program so that that person that is, you know, saying on someone's couch because of you know, kindness, but that might end soon can also get assistance. But that, I think, is one of the best experiences.
Carol Sainthilaire:Something I don't talk a lot about and I won't dive into because it's just something I still not comfortable talking about is my father has justice involvement. You know he did his time. He, you know all of that, all good, but so much of the assistance we have these days. You know most people with the justice background aren't gonna be eligible for it. And here I was how my father got a section eight voucher for us. I still don't understand it. And people make mistakes, and you know also our people of lower income don't have access to attorneys and things like that. So being able to understand that a mistake one person did, one person, made many, many years ago, shouldn't affect their ability to access housing or services, food stamps, et cetera, because that's not what justice is. You do your time, you serve, and then after that it should be, you know, a clean slate. So those are the two things you know. Growing up in section eight also that sort of I never think I'd had to bounce around, but I had people where my parents were, the house where people bounced around. And then the justice involvement. You know I've dedicated a lot of time for that.
Carol Sainthilaire:I also have two brothers that are veterans my eldest brother, who was, you know, the love of my life junior. He served when I'm a mistake, I'm the youngest of five. I'm the only one from this marriage, but my siblings are all a lot older than me. So when I was in like kindergarten, first grade, my brother was, you know, serving. He joined right at 18. So a lot of the work that I've done in the homeless system is also to ensure that veterans coming back from war have access to housing and have access to services. So that's another thing that, like I have no experience, like I had no study or educational background, to you know, do veterans work? But while I was working for the county we've reduced veteran homelessness from like it was this whole thing like you create a list and you try to reach functional zero.
Carol Sainthilaire:And we had like 33 homeless veterans within our county and I think by the time I left the county we were down to like 11. And that was, you know, that number that we were able to house was because I literally was keeping a list and trying to figure out again with our community of partners. I'm not trying to take all the credit here, but it's because every veteran I see, I see my brothers and you know they, especially them deserve access to a roof over their heads.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, definitely we tend to kind of disregard our veterans when they stop doing their work. And you know and it's sad it's like I have other veteran friends as well that you know if it wasn't for certain programs they wouldn't be where they're at. So it's nice to see that. And so obviously you were studying international relations.
Carol Sainthilaire:Yeah.
Raul Lopez:Now you're not doing international relations, so did you go right into international relations of after college, or did you stick to some nonprofit stuff?
Carol Sainthilaire:So the summer between junior and senior year, I got an internship with as a New York City arts intern and I got placed at El Museo del Barrio, which is New York City's premier Latin American museum. It also is a community center. Like it really started with Puerto Rican activists the 60s or 70s, like again, I used to have this elevator pitch ready. So I had an internship there and I just fell in love with it and they did so much work also internationally and like also help work to help the community you know of East Harlem or El Barrio, which was still, you know, I think, one of the lowest zip codes in all of New York City. So I was working, I interned there and then when I got out of, when I was graduating BU, I got a job offer to be their government grants assistant. So I was doing a lot of that government work and getting funding for the museum. But it also created so much exposure. Like I met Lin-Manuel Miranda's father at El Museo because he was one of the board members. They had this amazing gala and it was like this entry into the world of like really Latin American culture in such an elevated way that I was like I could see this Like you know when they go. You know when they go and do international exhibitions, like I could see myself like really creating a career there.
Carol Sainthilaire:Unfortunately, I graduated in 2008 and then the world collapsed and I got laid off. I started that job June of 2008, right after college, and I also took it and said I had also had a job offer doing more international stuff in Boston, but I was less money and I would have had to pay. Brent and everything were here. I would have been able to. I lived with my parents, helped them out, but it was it. Just I had to.
Carol Sainthilaire:I had to be sensible and reasonable because I was also gonna have student loans that I had to pay. So I took the better paying job, also where my heart was Like you know, I knew in Museo. I knew the people there, all of that. So, anyway, I moved out to my first apartment in July 1st of 2009 and on like July 27th, right before that fiesta gala that happened at BU, where you guys were all just I was like trying not to sob and I'm like I'm poor, I'm laid off and you all bought me drinks, well, to care of me and like a. Really it was. Honestly, I was like imagine again all of the hopes and expectations your parents have. I didn't even tell my parents I'd gotten laid off and I again.
Carol Sainthilaire:I totally understand why it happened. But now I had rent to pay, my savings had gone to my security deposit, so you know, furniture, and now I have no job. I couldn't tell my parents until after I got back from Boston and they did it the day before I was supposed to leave. So they're like here's your box. So then I like went home to cry and pack to then go to Boston and see all of you Anyway, yeah, so that sucked. But I mean I learned so much Like I knew I was a registered lobbyist there. I had started to, you know, develop the skills of like this is how you ask for money, this is how you do a budget, this is how you do New York City government forms. So after a few months of like you know either, I went to Arizona to be with my sister for a little bit.
Carol Sainthilaire:I did a few like temp jobs and then I interviewed at Common Ground, now known as Breaking Ground, who was one of the largest supportive housing providers and developers in the country at the time, and I applied for like a housing operations assistant, something like that, and part of the job was going to be to help the government grants manager that was going on maternity leave and because I knew how to. I think I said, oh, I plan my vacations in Excel and it was just like you have the skillset, you're a nerd like you're perfect. And I got into it like literally just because I knew how to do New York City Vendex forms, which is like how you get funding from the city, and because I was a wizard Excel because I taught myself that and I got that job and I fell in love with housing, the impact you have on people's lives, the connection to federal policy, local policy, and I grew from there. I went from an assistant to a quality assurance analyst to then the government grants manager for a multimillion dollar agency. Like I was sitting there with the CFO and like all of the BPs going over the budgets and people's salaries, and like helping with audits. Like I didn't know what an audit was before, I'd never filed taxes, my parents never filed taxes. They were poor, never filed taxes until after I got a real job and I'm like, oh, I have to do this. But yeah, just sort of.
Carol Sainthilaire:And then I decided to get my master's Again. I couldn't afford to stop working and do the master's in two years, so it took me three years and I would work full time and then go to school at night, and even I still had to do client work. So I had to use my PTO to and luckily breaking around because of the work I was trying to do. I was getting my master's in urban policy, focusing on housing. They were really flexible in letting me like, oh, you have a meeting with this city agency to talk about housing or XYZ, so sometimes they wouldn't make me have to take time off. So it was great, but I mean it was a lot of work.
Carol Sainthilaire:And in the middle of all of that, hurricane Sandy happened and I was homeless for three months. Basically our apartment, my husband and I were dating but living together, and our building was like we got evacuated with a National Guard and they're like you can't live here. So by that point we had two rabbits and John, me and our two rabbits went from my Theos house that had no power to then a hotel that, because I had renters insurance, we could stay there for two weeks smuggled in my rabbits. Then we went, lived in our friend's basement for like a month while I was in the middle of midterms plus had just been promoted to the government grants job and then, by the time I was at finals, I was at our other friend's house, house sitting for them because they were out of the country. And then, finally, in the new year, like January 2013, we were able to move back in.
Carol Sainthilaire:So, despite all that, I got my masters and I would say I left breaking ground because, again, I'm younger, I'm also a woman, we know sexism in agencies doesn't exist and, again, this is no knock to breaking ground. It was just like, sort of there was a man doing the job that I was doing before and I'm like, oh well, I know what he makes.
Carol Sainthilaire:I want to make $75,000.
Raul Lopez:I feel like you're not going to make $75,000.
Carol Sainthilaire:I'm like okay. So I applied for another job and that's how I got in the county and guess what? I was making $75,000. And I was working at home in my community. I had a pension. I was doing that policy work, while also doing the programmatic work of creating new programs and new initiatives. And yeah, that's how I got.
Carol Sainthilaire:I have never been in politics. This is sort of more politics adjacent, but establishing relationships, being able to see best practices from other parts of the country and implementing them at home. So while I was there again, it was before the pandemic we were able to reduce homelessness in Hudson County by a good chunk. We were getting more money in federal aid. We in 2020,. I saw my. I now consider her my mentor. I saw Randy Moore yesterday, who's she's a CEO now of a large housing provider in central Jersey and I saw her and it's like we did so much together and in a system that's dominated by men and also older men here in Hudson and in Hudson County, you have to be connected and, like most people that go into civil service, it's like oh yeah, you know, I'm a commissioner and my granddaughter just graduated college.
Carol Sainthilaire:I gave her a job and then they just never leave the job. So for me and Randy to come in sort of as outsiders, like we had no one that you know, no dads, no uncles that you know, gave us those jobs and we did such a huge I think we did a really big impact in there.
Carol Sainthilaire:And then from my work in Hudson County I then went to the corporation for support of housing, which is like this national think tank. There are CDFI, so they give out loans for people that want to develop affordable and supportive housing. Like that was my dream job and honestly, I didn't even think that I would go from that to like I was working in programs in New York, new Jersey, philadelphia, chattanooga, tennessee. Like it was just, I traveled the country you know, talking about like the overlap of the justice system and homelessness or the child welfare system and the likelihood that if you, you know, you enter foster care as a kid, you're 40 times more likely to become a chronically homeless adult. Like I was going out and like talking to people, like people were listening to me. This, you know, poor immigrant girl, daughter of immigrant girl, you know, from Hudson County. It's like shit. I know stuff, like I and I think the imposter syndrome, especially for brown kids, it's just, it's real.
Carol Sainthilaire:And then someone asked me to be a CEO of a nonprofit and now I'm, you know, and that was wild because I started right before the pandemic and there I was a landlord and I was a you know, there I was giving out section eight, vouchers. But I mean, it's not just like you give them out, it's they're a waiting list and you manage staff and you know, for three years if it rained, I had to make sure, like, does anyone powers, that anyone's power go out, that any, you know like there were just so many things and I kind of got thrown into this nonprofit management. You know I again I had all the building blocks but still to. When I told my parents and like I got this job and I'm, I'm a boss, they were just like even they couldn't believe it. And again, I'm not very like from the top down in terms of hierarchy, like we're all equals, but I'm not going to lie, it felt really nice to have that title and now being the executive director of the Waterfront project is just I couldn't have. Again, I was there when they started. I was at the county when they sort of started and they were three like volunteers working out of a church basement and now I oversee a staff of 30 attorneys. Like I'm not an attorney and I'm your managing attorney, you know.
Carol Sainthilaire:But the work, you know that, the progression of my career, I feel like I've just been building and building and learning more and more skills, and I think part of even being an effective leader is knowing that you're part of a team and you don't have all the answers. So I know I'm not perfect and I still have so much more to learn, but, you know, I am just so thankful to the people that gave me the opportunities and also to my. I'm thankful for my parents, because they really instilled this work ethic in me that, like you know, I you know I'm scheduling this morning to months and it's just I'm always going because, on top of working, I volunteer, I'm on boards. I need to stop doing so much, but I don't think I know how.
Raul Lopez:It's, it's you know. First of all, when you talked about the whole idea of being a boss and you still don't know everything and you get the imposter syndrome. It's, it's very true, and I think one of the things I learned just from my career my career along is that you know, not everybody knows everything they're doing.
Raul Lopez:You're still, you're always going to learn along the way. You know, the CEO of a company doesn't go day one knowing exactly how to run a company. It takes a few bumps and whatever, and it's all learning and they're making millions of dollars a year.
Raul Lopez:You know what I mean. Well, figuring it out along the way and we have to kind of tell ourselves that, well, for as long as we are open to figuring it out along the way, we'll get there. And if we work hard for it, we'll get there as well. So you know, don't tell yourself no, don't apply to that job because I don't have the experience. Don't tell they don't.
Carol Sainthilaire:It's funny. I tell the women in my life, I'm like, because I think there's a study that shows that no offense to you as a man that men are more likely to see a job description even if they don't meet any of the requirements they're going to apply, and a woman is much less likely to do that. But it's all, even the women that I and I have a very diverse staff, even the my friends, the women that I supervise, I'm like, have the audacity of a mediocre white man because they're going to apply for the position even if they don't qualify. And you probably meet all the qualifications except one, a pipe or like, just go for it Again.
Carol Sainthilaire:For even when I was applying for when, it was a year ago that I was interviewing for this executive director position and I'm like I'm not an attorney, like I don't know, like my husband's an attorney, so I know how to manage them.
Carol Sainthilaire:But I always make that joke I'm surrounded by attorneys but I'm like I don't know, like, but then you know, I just started talking about like this is my experience, this is what I believe this is, you know, and this is even like a different part of the homelessness housing system. Like I've done a lot of getting people out of homelessness and inter permanent housing and keeping them house from like sort of that cycle of homelessness to housing. This is let's not even let you touch the homeless system. We're preventing evictions, we are, you know, trying to stop you from even entering that system. That you know. Then I sort of helped mold to like you know this is everything that should happen, or how to get you from homelessness out of it. So you know, it was a lot of that Like I still don't understand what half of the acronyms the attorneys throw at me are and I'm like I stop, I join all of the meetings and I'm like what does that mean?
Carol Sainthilaire:What is WRO? Oh, we're more in a removal, Like I don't know how the courts work.
Carol Sainthilaire:But I'm learning along the way and I think that that's been, you know, just so much fun and eye opening to really, you know, be able to understand. Because if this is me with a master's not understanding the eviction process, imagine the person actually going through the eviction, and I think that that's the lived experience that I can bring to it is, I don't know, I'm not an attorney how can we make sure our clients or, you know, the people when we do community outreach events, understand this legal world, especially when they're in crisis? So I think that you know, you should always and very transparent, like always, just be who you are everywhere. Because if you, if I'm going to be pretending to be this like very stiff executive director, like no.
Carol Sainthilaire:I'm cheeky. I have friendships with the people I supervise and I've learned from previous bosses that might not have been great how to be a good leader, and I do think that anyone who's worked for me and or worked with me I don't even like saying work for me, worked with me knows that that's how I lead, and I think that one of the things that sometimes happens is, you know, when you go from like rags to riches for lack of a better term is that you're like oh well, I never want to go back there. So like I'm now this person that wears like the expensive suits, and like I'm up here and I'm like I'm always going to be, like I'm always going to be me. I'm always, you know, learning more with more experience, but I'm never going to try and present to not like I'm never going to deny my story and my parent's story, and that's what I lead with, so that people know my work ethic, my heart and my beliefs and my morals everywhere I go.
Carol Sainthilaire:And if you don't like me then you know it's not for you. For you, you know. And if it doesn't align with the organization's mission, then you know it's not. But for the Waterfront Project. I think it all really just came together and I have an amazing board, I have amazing staff and it's the most work, it's the hardest I've ever worked, but it's just so rewarding. And I'm just again I couldn't have dreamed for a better life.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, we have a whole episode about being authentic in the workplace and I think it's one of those situations where you're always striving on on trying to keep that balance between work person and real person and then, as you become more successful and feel more comfortable in your career, you're more open to expanding the. You know, I don't think I'd be able to do this podcast and be open about my career, my life, publicly and not fear what would my job think if I did something 15 years ago, 10 years ago. But now I'm like my work speaks for itself.
Carol Sainthilaire:And I think that's also even with, like, the people that are in power are people that have probably been there for 30 years as well. You know I'll say that with a previous, you know supervisor and you know, I know that they came from you know, a much older probably. You know I don't want to say like much stop, but it's just more of like you know, I'm the boss and this is how I do things and it's like here I come in, like I'm Carol, like I can't I have no poker face, like I, the way I'm at something I work on, to like obviously like I'm having HR conversations.
Carol Sainthilaire:I have to really, you know, I'm like I'm switcherland, I'm neutral, I need to just down the facts.
Carol Sainthilaire:But you know, it's sort of like I'm going to go anywhere and I'm going to try and create change. I'm going to push back on the system that has been created and has been, you know, in place for a while and I'm going to be creative and if the program fails or the project fails, that's fine. But I think and again, I think this also goes back to, like the, the male, you know, the, the patriarchal society that we're all from as Latinos, is that you know oh my God, my boss is mad at me, like I'm going to get in trouble.
Carol Sainthilaire:Like, oh my God, this is so bad and I sometimes have to remove myself to be like, yeah, something happened and it's not great. But like you're not going to yell at me. Or like make me feel less than because of this, because if we don't try and change and sometimes fail, then what are we doing? We're not growing and you're not growing an organization. So that's really how I come in. But I come in first. I learn everything, like what is happening? Why is it happening? I try to understand everything.
Carol Sainthilaire:Like the first few months at this job I met within the first eight business days I met with every single staff and I'm like what do you do? What do you want to do? If I had a million dollars magically appear in my lap, what would you want me to do with it? I'm not chasing money, I want it to be work that you want to do. Then, after that, I joined every meeting. Like I any meeting. Like intake the attorney's meeting, the housing counselor's meetings. I needed to know every single part and I also needed to meet the staff. Like we're hybrid.
Carol Sainthilaire:The post pandemic world is very different, where before everyone was just together five days a week, eight hours, at least eight hours a day. So I think being able to be flexible as a leader and learning from the people below you, you know, from entry level to you know your CFO or your CEO oh that's how you learn and that's how you become a good leader, and not being scared to fail and I think that that's one of the things my board now really offers me is like I can talk to them and be like I'm scared of XYZ, like I'm worried or we didn't get this grant. I feel bad, but it's like okay, cool, like what are we going to do next? And I think that's so important for this new generation of leaders. You know our generation and then the generation the Gen Zers behind us.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, it's a. I always bring up the whole Batman quote. You know, why do we? Why do we? Why do we fall? So we learn how to get back up. You know from Batman. So I repeat all the time like it's okay, you're going to mess up, we're all going to mess up and just got to get better from it. So, um, well, let's, let's. You know, it looks like and it sounds like being a boss is hard. I think that's what you're telling me. So you know, you're just scheduling this. We talked about it. You know, I'm sure it takes up a lot of time, a lot of space. You know what I mean. How do you keep your head afloat with everything? What keeps you motivated? I?
Carol Sainthilaire:ask for help. I'm really like in that sense I don't have an ego Like again, even you were reading my bio at the beginning like I laugh. I'm like I know I have to do these things, but it's like I'm just, I'm just.
Raul Lopez:Carol and I care about housing.
Carol Sainthilaire:But I have a really great support system. I have a housing director and a legal director, Lizette and Kayla, who are just amazing and again I keep saying my board, just the support system and being okay to be vulnerable.
Raul Lopez:Again, I'm not saying.
Carol Sainthilaire:I'm running around the office trying, but you know there are days that are harder than others and there are things that come up and you have so many responsibilities and I really do have a great support system within the office Then I mean again my husband, my family you know, I live around the corner from my favorite aunt and my aunt.
Carol Sainthilaire:Sometimes I just go over there and I just have, you know, a cup of coffee with her and, like you know, we talk about other stuff. I also I said earlier, my rabbit was chewing I also rescue, which is it's all. It's full, full job on top of what I do. Yeah, I rescue animals rabbits, dogs, cats. Most of the cats I've literally just picked up off the street. But me and my husband do that together. I foster for countless rescues here in New Jersey and in New York.
Carol Sainthilaire:And while it's more work and I'm covered in fur and hair and have to use an asthma pump all the time because I'm allergic, it really just it's what grounds me. If it were up to me, I would be running an organization that ended homelessness for humans and animals, because that's really like the Venn diagram of Carol.
Raul Lopez:That's it. You gotta incorporate both where the homeless person gets the pet.
Carol Sainthilaire:I mean, and I am trying, so I'm on board with my dog is my?
Raul Lopez:home. Welcome to your apartment and here's your pet.
Carol Sainthilaire:That's honestly what I'm trying to do. Actually, I've submitted two applications one at the night for private funding to do emotional support animal clinics. So people that are in tenants and units and they're landlords like you, get an pet. They can't say no to a service dog or service animal. So I wanna do this know your rights sessions so that people can come in and like either they're looking for an apartment or a veteran that has PTSD and wants to have a dog but doesn't know the paperwork. My attorneys and my housing house those can help them do it. So, fingers crossed, if anyone's looking to fund anything, I could do it with like 50 grand. Let me check my wallet. A lot of people do that, but this is part of it. That's the hustle.
Raul Lopez:If everybody sends in a dollar, it will get you there.
Carol Sainthilaire:Yeah, no, it's just like every little bit helps and we hustle hard. Yeah, no, but I rescue. Where I'm in my office right now, which is also Penelope's room Penelope is the youngest rabbit we have and, yeah, that's sort of what keeps me grounded and keeps my head up from water. When I'm having a rough day, I come and just cuddle my puppy or cuddle my rabbits or the cats.
Carol Sainthilaire:And then I also have just an amazing group of friends, all of their diverse backgrounds, and we talk about these. We have conversations about imposter syndrome. We talk about creating generational wealth. Like I don't have children and that's not part of my. I am, but I have nieces and nephews and everything I do, like every property that my husband and I buy, I'm like this is for them. Like this is the generational wealth I'm leaving for my nieces and nephews, who mean the world to me and I want them to work hard, but I also want them to maybe have a little more freedom than I had to like choose their path. Not saying I mean it would kill me. If any of them was like I wanna be an influencer, I'd be like stop. Not that there's anything wrong with being an influencer, but again I feel like culturally, I'm like no, you have to do something other than put on makeup on the internet.
Carol Sainthilaire:But I want them to like if they ever need help, they can come to me and they know that they're gonna get it. And if it's, oh, I wanna go to college but I don't wanna take out loans, like, please, don't take out the loans. My master's was, I'm still paying it off, I'm gonna get, god willing, the student loans get forgiven in another, like 15 months, because I've been doing public service. But yeah, I think that everything that I'm doing is to help the next generation of St Hilaire slash.
Raul Lopez:Perez.
Carol Sainthilaire:Espinal girls and boys that I'm lucky to call my nieces and nephews.
Raul Lopez:And also the non-blood ones, like again I have such.
Carol Sainthilaire:I just have such a great tribe of people that have been with me through every high and low of my career and if it's like, oh, I'm having a fundraiser and I need to raise so much, like even if they're giving $25, like I appreciate that and they're also they're keeping me sane, making sure I don't just have a nervous breakdown.
Raul Lopez:And it's funny too, cause when you talk about the conversations you had with your friends and you guys talk about it and stuff like that and it's, you know, I think, one of the big things for me when I left, when I would left, where I was from in Rhode Island and went to college, and then I was in my fraternity with the fraternity brothers and the conversations we have and I was, I would tell people it's like it's different. I go back home and we're talking about who's better, biggie or Tupac, and then we come in and we're talking about what's affecting the Latino community and what's affecting our people, and then you start surrounding yourself from people who have different mindsets of different things. That opens up your mentality and keeps you thinking and working through some of those things. Even now, same thing when I talk with you know people, we're talking about these things you know how do we overcome our successes, how are we overcome the issues at work?
Raul Lopez:You know, I completely changed my mindset on my career five years ago because of conversations I had with some of my friends and fraternity brothers, and I essentially doubled my salary in like five years. You know what I mean and it's like it was these little motivations of the people you keep around you that kept up keeping you up there.
Carol Sainthilaire:And it's just, it's very different, like again with our family, or even you know, my sister and my cousins are all about, you know, anywhere from 20 to 15 years old, doing me and like they stay either in the same job or the same field because that was stability. Like that's like even now, like I've made a few changes in my career and my mother will be like you're changing jobs again and it's like, no, you don't understand Like I'm going from. Like you know, I went from again being a government contracts manager for one organization to leading a homeless system in Hudson County to then you know all of this stuff and it's scary sometimes, to it's not scary, it's just like I know I'm gonna get judged by, like you know, by older generations of like, oh, why are you changing jobs so much? And it's like it's not, I can't, I don't believe in staying somewhere for 30 years.
Carol Sainthilaire:It's just it's not, because I've seen what happens when someone stays in the same position for 30 years and I think you lose a little bit of that leadership and you're not gonna allow the new generations to do that. I also don't wanna work till I'm 70. Like I joke with my husband, I'm like you got till 50 to figure it out and make it big, because I want my animal sanctuary, I want my farm and that's what I wanna focus on.
Raul Lopez:Nice, nice.
Carol Sainthilaire:I'm on. But I think having those conversations with my friends where it's like, are we making lateral moves? Like, oh okay, you're gonna make more money here, but the title is lower, you know, like these are conversations that have that people even slightly older than us aren't gonna understand, because they were, it was indoctrinated in them Like the longer you stay somewhere, the less movement, like just get your salary and go home. And I think now those boundaries of work-life balance are a little different and I think we all want more too.
Raul Lopez:I don't know. Yeah, and it's true because you think about.
Carol Sainthilaire:I think about that all the time, Like I think about what am I gonna learn in this next job that's gonna help me move up to the next job within two to three years, and either and it's like I say now here, I actually saw one of my board members at this conference yesterday and I'm like, like I was talking about blah, blah, blah and I'm like, oh, this is what I would love to do. I'm like, but please know, like I wanna stay at the Waterford Project, like I could stay here for five 10 years, like I, you know again, everything else permitting, but like I can see, this is the first place where I'm like I could see a five year plan, a 10 year plan to like really make it great.
Carol Sainthilaire:But then eventually I'm preparing and mentoring the next generation of people to lead the Waterford Project. Like I have one, this one amazing employee, and I still have no idea how old she is I'm pretty sure she's younger, about a decade younger than I am and I'm like I see that she could be, like she could be the next me, and not saying like, oh, being me is great, but it's like, you know, starting now to teach her what it takes to be a manager of a nonprofit and also saying like, hey, go take this class, like it's part of your professional development, like learn beyond what it is you're doing. And going to conferences and networking. Like no one taught us how to network, we just kind of got thrown into it. Or it'd be like, oh, it's a Latin party, and then people like show up with business cards and then it's just kind of like more of a party than the networking.
Carol Sainthilaire:But, now it's like it's just part of what you have to do, and I rather set up the younger generation to like no, this is why it's important Like oh my God, yeah you're hearing a bunch of people old people talk on stage about something, but stay until the end because you don't know who you're going to run into. In the hallway that has a $30,000 grant they want to give you.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, exactly no, it's all good advice. So generally, usually about this time is when I come around and I ask a question, like to ask everyone, you know, if you could go back in time and talk to younger Carol and give her some advice.
Carol Sainthilaire:That's something you tell yourself not put so much pressure on myself. I can go back and look and I'm like, oh my God, I was such an anxious kid, but again, at least my parents didn't believe in therapy or any of that stuff back then, Again, it was just like you just had to be greater than them and you needed to give them something to be proud of.
Carol Sainthilaire:Again, I'm choosing not to have kids, but I think that if I had, I would hope that I wouldn't continue that like it's pressure. I just always thought I had to be doing something. That when, no, I got laid off like my world collapsed. I was just like. I took it personally, and now I can reflect on it and know that it had nothing to do with me.
Carol Sainthilaire:It was just a financial decision and I've now had to fire people or lay people off and things like that, and it sucks, but also to just take more chances. I'm not a spontaneous person by any means, and I think it's because I've always had to be in control, because it's like I had these goals and, yeah, it's okay to not take things so seriously and have so much pressure on yourself, because and you're in adulthood and all you're doing is working and having to be serious None of us are perfect, and I think it's the imperfections that make us better and more interesting as human beings and as leaders.
Carol Sainthilaire:And to never. I mean and I don't think that this is anything that I ever did, I don't know, I'd have to reflect a little more is just really being okay with not always fitting within a box. In terms of, you know, as being Dominican American, I struggled a lot as a kid. My parents would dump me in the ER every summer. So I've been going to the Dominican Republic since I was two, spent three months there. So that's why I say I had two childhoods and when I was there, I was like, and then when I was here, I wasn't. You know, I know, and here would call me a good enough. So I think that being able to be okay with the fact that I wasn't from there and I wasn't from here, versus having it cause a little bit more of an identity crisis, which I'm sure again, I'm not special in that, I think we all had it. But I think that those would be the things, like you know, just be like I'm from both places and, if anything that makes me cool, You're from one place. You suck.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, definitely, I trust me, we were. I remember being in Peru as well. Sometimes I'm like no, I didn't go to the front of the taxi. It's like you know the tax charge, how to school, school, school, school is over on the on the pricing to get somewhere. He's like no, the Peruvian's back. Yet that guy in the front's, American, yeah, but yeah, no. And then I guess the last thing I want to talk about is that article about your bunny house.
Carol Sainthilaire:So we, in April 2015,. We bought this house in Jersey City. It was a two family. It wasn't. Our hope was we were going to always rent the top floor, which is where I am right now, and we were going to build down because, you know, it was only like a two bedroom. The kitchen was small, like our unit, and you always have to have a place for your parents to come stay, or your cousins or your so I've never seen a house.
Carol Sainthilaire:I've been like, oh, it's just for me and John and all of our animals, we need the guest room at least. So we're going to build down. And our basement kept flooding. So we're like, all right, scratch, that we're going to have to just take, convert the house to a one family. So, after renting for two years and say, and you know, saving some money, we were able to convert it.
Carol Sainthilaire:And we were working with, you know, a construction company and like you know, this huge design firm and someone from the New York Post was like talking about, was talking to them, about like, oh, what are things we should feature? Like, well, we're working on this project and they have bunnies and there's bunny wallpaper. And then the New York Post showed up at my house and did an article on the bunny mansion. Except they were more interested in the rabbits than they were on like even the house or me and John. So um, jelly was no longer with us and point, who is 11 and a half now. They didn't want any of the cats. Or at that point we had Gidget a to Wawa. They didn't want any of them in the shot. It was literally like styling a photo shoot for the rabbits.
Carol Sainthilaire:And then it's funny, during the pandemic I was fostering a rabbit and someone came in and she's like, oh, this doesn't look like the photo shoot at all. And I'm like, yes, they set up a TP tent for the rabbits. The rabbits are free range, like they're not. Like you know there's hay and they, you know they use litter boxes, but there's poop and like I also have cats and also it's a pandemic, like chill, that was really funny. When someone's like, oh, it's not. I'm like, no, like I look like a crazy person. Half the time the house is a mess because I rescued 50 animals. So yeah, so that was, um, it was really great. I wish I hadn't been the New York Post, but it was. But I can say I was in the New York Post, not for being arrested, not for a scandal, but because of my bunnies.
Raul Lopez:Nice, I remember that coming out like whoa that's a lot of bunny stuff. It was awesome yeah.
Carol Sainthilaire:No, we only have two bunnies left. Right now. We have five cats of our own I'm fostering one and then we have two dogs. We have one a while we'll mix and then I'll win a baby to while we were rescued in July.
Raul Lopez:Nice, yeah Well, if you ever decided to come, I think a lot of these houses have a lot of space. You can definitely set up a lot of space.
Carol Sainthilaire:Now we have our super house that we're going to be redoing, and that's good. So this is the bunny mansion in JC, and in down the Jersey Shore it's going to be the Conejo compound.
Raul Lopez:Nice.
Carol Sainthilaire:We'll be able to rehab the main house and build a casita next to it. So I'm really excited about that and designing that, and that's where my creativity comes in. Like, again, I said I used to design my own outfits. We're on the make and now I like I love interior design and doing all of that. And then just making it me like, yeah, there's going to be cat wallpaper and rabbit wallpaper and it's just, it's my little sprinkle of carol on it.
Carol Sainthilaire:I blame my parents for not letting me have pets growing up, and now I'm like, haha, it's my house. You can't tell me how many animals.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, exactly, yeah, what's it called? You're going to do the little Conejo asienda in the beach and then start doing a little farm somewhere, and so, yeah, it's awesome and it's cool, I mean, it's nice to. And I think one of the things you know when you feel that you've made it is that you have the luck, you're being able to make things your own and you know you're not just living somewhere, you're making something your home. So you know that's great.
Carol Sainthilaire:I think it's also like again, when we, you know, my mother thinks I'm insane. She's like everything should be white and like, and I'm like that's not me. And then when we bought the second house, we actually they had kind of heard like my aunt say like something oh, are you going to stay down the shore? My mom's like what do you mean? What, where? And I'm like so we had I had John drive them down. And my mom's like where are we? I was with them, I was going to meet them after work. She's like where are we going? We've been driving for 45 minutes Like where is John taking us? And we get to the house and instead of saying like what, my daughter now needs two houses, why do you need two houses? And I'm like mother, what you say is congratulations, I'm out of you. And she's just like, well, yeah, but like why do you need any?
Raul Lopez:That was my dad. Every time, something like he's always been proud of me. But the first instinct is why? Why do you need such a big house? Why do you need to go to house? And it's an expensive area, why do you need to do that? Why do you need to do that? Because he doesn't want you to spend frugously and lose your money and then you know your shit out of luck, because they've always been conservative with their findings and stuff. And then I buy the house and he's like, oh my God, this house is amazing.
Carol Sainthilaire:Good job.
Raul Lopez:Good job, you know what I mean, but it and the initial reaction is the same thing when I found my dog in Houston. So when I moved to Houston my dog was like six weeks old, he was abandoned and he showed up on my port while I was grilling steak, found a jump on the grill to eat my steak. So I've had him. He's 15, turning 16 in April, big old guy, now Bucky, and so when I first got him I was like don't keep the dog, just get rid of it. It's going to be a financial burden. And then, like six months later he's visiting. He's got like 600 pictures of the dog that one week.
Carol Sainthilaire:And I think that that's one of the things. It's like we're not going to have that mental and I think that that's good, that like we were getting rid of that. Like what is the? I'm not saying like spend all the money you have, but it's like hold on to your pennies and don't do anything fun, Because what if you're poor again? And I think that what we've done is create careers and create these live sorts where, like yeah, we have our 401ks.
Carol Sainthilaire:Our parents never had 401k, at least my parents never had 401ks. And we're we? Yes, we have fun, we go on vacation. My mother still yells at me if I take PTO. She's like you're taking vacation again. I'm like mother, I'm the boss and also if you don't use it, you lose it. Like I need to take time off. She's like I know, but I don't know what that is. I'm like I just I have to be okay with the fact that they are never going to understand it, because their lives were just so different than ours.
Carol Sainthilaire:And I know your daughter isn't going to have sort of these complaints about you and your wife when she's older. So I think that that's the positive of we took the brunt and sort of you know that generational trauma, but we're also ending it or making a little less for our nieces, nephews, kids, etc.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, and I already know like by the time my daughter and some of the my father's daughters and my friend's daughters and sons too, when they get to college, you know it's going to be really easy. Some say, mom, is there a way I can get an internship? I'm like, yeah, I have a whole bunch of friends that are like, oh, I don't want to do, I want to work in a company. That's cool, I have a friend girl she can hook you up with.
Carol Sainthilaire:You know, it's just like we're building networks, not only for ourselves but for, you know, one of my nieces that lives in Arizona. Actually, I think she wants to go into teaching and is looking at BU now and I'm like, oh my God, like I really like I'll take you to your tour and like all of that. And you know, I know her experience is going to be completely different than mine and I'm glad for that. She grew up with a lot more privilege than I did and but I would still, you know, to have my niece go to the school where I really feel I found myself and had just such amazing memories, you know, would be awesome. So, fingers crossed, she chooses BU.
Raul Lopez:Well, I'm glad everything worked out and, like I said, I'm so thankful for you being here this morning.
Carol Sainthilaire:Thank you for nagging me again. It's not, it's literally. It's like if it is not on my calendar and you're not reminding me the minute it happens, it's like it's, it's a lot.
Raul Lopez:But when you?
Carol Sainthilaire:do what you love. It's just like you're. You just keep you just keep.
Raul Lopez:That's good, though I'm glad you know, like you said, it's something you love, and I'm glad you you not only found something you love but you're able to find success in it as well, because sometimes that's sometimes a hard part, and also I mean congrats to you, like this is really awesome, that you're really doing this.
Carol Sainthilaire:I think you know the. I even love the name, like how do you say success in Spanish? And you know, all bilingual. Our Spanish might not be the most perfect because we never studied it, we just learned it and stuff like that. So I really, you know, kudos to you. You know I do love social media because it, like I see, like I see the other Raoul's daughter growing up.
Carol Sainthilaire:I see Alex. Yep, like I love that. I get to see the men you have all become, you know, versus when we were drinking jungle juice yeah, graphic apartment.
Raul Lopez:That again I love whatever.
Carol Sainthilaire:I drive by 504. If I'm ever in the area I'm like oh.
Raul Lopez:And now it's, I think, administrative officer.
Carol Sainthilaire:Oh God, oh, if those walls can talk.
Raul Lopez:Yeah, yeah, I'm sure the stains are still there though. Well, thank you so much, and yeah, and if everyone else listening, thanks again for tuning in, and I hope you'll join me again next time as we continue to learn how to say success in Spanish.
